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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
emcla · 01/07/2020 20:13

On a positive note...all consumption was of a healthy nature.

MadauntofA · 01/07/2020 21:48

Annabel22 - I've just watched that Ted talk - very good! Thanks for sharing

MazDazzle · 01/07/2020 23:16

Fast day complete.

I am starving!

Didn’t eat anything until 8pm, then had chicken Thai curry with rice (400 cals) and an apple. Well done everyone!

NathanNathan · 01/07/2020 23:28

Nice work everyone on the fast days! emcla as it was all on track food I'd count that as a win.

This may sound like a stupid problem to have... I find it relatively hard to eat enough to my TDEE on NFDs without eating some sort of junk.

I do 16:8, more often 18:6 between 1.30pm and 7.30pm and just have lunch and tea. I often get full, particularly at tea time, at about 500 cals, same at lunch, add in milk for tea etc and I end up at about 1400. TDEE is 1700 (for my goal weight).

I know this sounds ridiculous and I should just eat more, but if I eat when I feel full it puts me in hinge mode more often than not.

Any advice anyone?

NathanNathan · 01/07/2020 23:29

Binge, not hinge! Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2020 23:32

Very encouraging NSV, Inthethick
You are getting fitter, which is brilliant

Well done on your FD, Beaut, Chic, MadAunt, Maz
You sound very positive, Quackers 👍

That's a good compliments NSV, Beaut

If your OH wants to do 5:2, then I strongly recommend Mosely's newer scheme of 800 cals on FDs, which works very well for blokes
As he's very active he could ease his way in with 2 x 800-1000 cal miniFDs

Don't worry, emcla
We never "fail" FDs, we just move them Smile
Your exercise was good and your food healthy - so a good NFD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2020 23:36

Don't worry, Nathan If you are not hungry, then stop eating

There is absolutely no need to eat up to your full TDEE,
especially as you are only 300 or so under
You are probably burning some bodyfat for fuel on NFDs too

People should not deliberately go under TDEE when they feel hungry, because it's not sustainable.
but as you feel satisfied, it is fine to be under.

OP posts:
NathanNathan · 01/07/2020 23:40

Thanks BCF! Reassuring.

inthethickofit19 · 02/07/2020 07:46

Thanks Grin just got to keep going.

FD here today, whose with me?!

emcla · 02/07/2020 08:25

Inthethick I’m with you. I’m moving mine to today. Might do a b2b. Good luck fasters! Now off for a coffee. Waves to everyone x

spatchcock · 02/07/2020 08:30

I've just completed my second FD of the week, kitchen closed on somewhere under 600 calories.

My weight is where it was two weeks ago, but I think that was due to a devil-may-care attitude on NFDs and I'm doing better this week.

Good luck all you Friday fasters. Keep at it!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2020 09:13

Well done, Spatchcock
See if you can focus on 5:2 healthy habits for NFDs
Night night to you

Good luck today, inthethick, emcla

OP posts:
Waspie · 02/07/2020 09:35

Morning! I'm joining you inthethickofit19 and emcla for a fast day today Brew

Usual black coffee for breakfast and cuppa soup for lunch and mushroom omelette and salad for dinner.

Good luck Thursday fasters!

missfliss · 02/07/2020 09:36

Joining the Thursday fasters

emcla · 02/07/2020 10:57

Good luck miss and waspie.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2020 13:15

Good luck, waspie, missfliss

OP posts:
emcla · 02/07/2020 15:35

How’s everyone doing? Looking forward to dinner but feeling fine. Have to nip to the shop after work so that will keep me busy until dinner. 430-6 pm is the worst time of the day for me. I am always ravenous.

Librarybooksandacoconut · 02/07/2020 16:28

2nd FD for me. I woke up this morning feeling really tired and with a bit of a sore throat. I’m pleased that I’ve just powered on through though as I feel fine now. Moving days on a whim is what has stopped me sticking to 5:2 in the past, so hopefully I’ll be able to stick to it this time!

Had some homemade veg soup for lunch, and going to have shakshuka for dinner followed by a bit of Greek yoghurt before bed. Last FD I was so hungry at bedtime I had a terrible night's sleep, so I’m hoping tonight will be better!

Expire1213 · 02/07/2020 17:05

Hi, eveyone, I have tried 5:2 about 2 years ago I lost a stone and half. The trouble was I didnt know how to maintain this and put eveything bk on. Well I'm bk now and wanted to lose a stone. I'm going to be doing my fast tomorrow and monday I will be doing these while at work. I work twice a week 12hr shifts so will be busy all day, hopfully I can lose the weight again. Iv put on so much during this lockdown. I weigh 10st and 5,4. Anyone else have a stone to lose?

MadauntofA · 02/07/2020 17:16

Welcome Expire! I'm on week 3 in and starting to lose some of my unwanted stone and a bit - slightly looser jeans so going in the right direction!

missfliss · 02/07/2020 18:37

Fast number 6 checked off and clocked in at 510 Cals!

Expire1213 · 02/07/2020 19:10

Ah great does sound like your doing well. How much weight have u lose in 3 weeks?

MadauntofA · 02/07/2020 19:20

Almost 3kg, need to lose about 10kg, but done it before and I usually slow down/ plateau after 5-6wks. Gave up in frustration last time, but I'm confident the font of all 5:2 knowledge @Bigchoc will advise on how to motor on through when I reach that plateau again!

inthethickofit19 · 02/07/2020 19:33

@Expire1213 I have a stone to lose too (a bit more would be lovely)

How does everyone cope with wanting to emotional eat?

Expire1213 · 02/07/2020 19:35

Ah ok, we can both do it together Smile how long have u been doing 5:2.