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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 29/06/2020 00:15

Good luck Spatchcock

For NFDs, I suggest just 1 week of mfp and actually measuring everything.

This would highlight which issues to tackle:
hidden calorie bombs, too many treats, too much booze, tolarge portions of healthy food

Many 5:2ers who have done this have received a shock / reality check when comparing this to their TDEE

and of course, if you snack between meals .... STOP Grin

It helps to plan out NFD menus in advance until you have retrained NFD habits

You don't have to count calories all the time, but just roughly plan the content of all the next day's meals,
so you include protein & veg each meal and you aren't hunting for food and ideas when hungry

OP posts:
spatchcock · 29/06/2020 01:08

Thanks, @BigChocFrenzy, your advice and support is so appreciated.

Have a good week :)

annabell22 · 29/06/2020 04:54

Morning all,

We had a lovely weekend away, nice Indian meal Thurs evening, tummy upset all day Friday - I think I am just not used to dairy any more, after doing Veganuary and then largely avoiding it ever since. The hotel organised a lovely vegan breakfast for me on Saturday. We don't eat lunch when away, so just had breakfast and dinner and still went for a 5k run on Thursday, 1 hour plus of walking the other days.

As expected, yesterday's weigh in showed a gain of 700g, but I had already planned a FD so wasn't concerned. I drank 2.5l of water and didn't eat until 7pm, where I had some Quorn fishless fingers and a mound of veg, followed by a soy yogurt, which came out at 480 cals. I ran another 5k and walked for an hour too. This morning, my weight has gone UP another 400g - what's that about?!!!

Hope today's fasters have more success than I did!

MadauntofA · 29/06/2020 06:42

Sounds like you didn't do too badly for a weekend away Annabell2!
FD here today, good luck fellow Monday fasters!

inthethickofit19 · 29/06/2020 07:08

Morning all,
TOTM arrived yesterday so feeling bit rubbish but have an FD planned today. Have ate way too much this week but just got to keep going and keep focussing ..

emcla · 29/06/2020 08:23

Good luck mad and anyone else fasting today. I’m fasting tomorrow as family birthday dinner tonight.

DietChic · 29/06/2020 12:42

FD today - soup for lunch and omelette for lafter. No loss this week which I will put down to being fairly carby in comparison to usual weeks.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/06/2020 13:48

Good luck, Madaunt, IntheThick, Chic

Annabell if you weigh day to day, don't take it too seriously and try to fugure out every blip:
Weight can naturally vary a couple of lb from day to day, even when not dieting

  • due to undigested food, hormonal swings, water retention / release etc

Best to look at the trend over 2-3 weeks,
which on 5:2 is usually a zig-zag curve trending downwards

OP posts:
Librarybooksandacoconut · 29/06/2020 18:16

Nearly through my first FD. Stuck to my plan and felt fine until 5ish when I started feeling a bit shakey. Didn’t help that I had to then cook pasta for the dc and dh at the same time as my dinner! Just got to make it through until bedtime - hopefully once I’ve digested dinner I’ll feel a bit better.

Librarybooksandacoconut · 29/06/2020 18:19

Also an added bonus was that I weighed myself and I’m actually 3kg lighter than I assumed which means lockdown hasn’t actually done any damage!

MadauntofA · 29/06/2020 18:43

Well done Library! It does get easier once you are in a routine. Just finishing today at around 500 after a spoon of yoghurt. Enjoyed my prawn and veggie stir fry tonight!

emcla · 29/06/2020 19:24

Well done fasters. I’m fasting tomorrow after a very indulgent few days. Also thinking of getting back into running. Used to do 5k before but was Always hungry. Anyone got any advice??

Beautiful3 · 29/06/2020 19:48

Kitchen closed at 636. Enjoyed my homemade chicken soup today! Well done Monday fasters! Think I'll do a mini fast wednesday, and proper fast on friday. Did that the last few weeks, I like it.

harriethoyle · 29/06/2020 19:50

I'm joining you @emcla on both fasting tomorrow and getting back into running - have joined a friend's sponsored challenge 100 miles in July. Eeeek! Haven't run since a half marathon in Oct so am going to start off by walking...

I am fine running fasted until I run more than about 5 miles. After that I need to eat protein beforehand. Maybe a boiled egg afterwards or a spoonful of peanut butter if you're ravenous?

I'm going to try pushing through to dinner tomorrow again, after doing it twice last week and feeling much better for it. We'll see!

DietChic · 29/06/2020 20:24

510 today - all fine and up for a bacon and hash brown breakfast tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/06/2020 20:29

Well done, Beaut , MadAunt

Almost there, Library
So close to nailing your 1st FD, just stay focused

tip:
What helps with FD headaches and feeling shaky while you are adapting to fasting
is to glug a level teasp Marmite (10 cals) mid-morning and mid-afternoon

This replenishes salt & other minerals that are likely to be low while your body adapts and can cause these effects.

Good luck tomorrow, emcla, harriet

Excellent that you are resuming running, Harriet

If you are running longer than about 40 minutes, I recommend scheduling FDs for your rest days or cross-training days

Or have your sprint practice, if any, on an FD, because sprints are HIIT and hence use more bodyfat stores for fuel rather than glycogen

Running. like swimming and other prolonged steady state cardio, tries to use mostly your glycogen store for fuel - which will be low when fasting

==> So on the NFD after an FD, have breakfast before running

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/06/2020 20:29

Well done too, Chic

OP posts:
emcla · 29/06/2020 21:10

Thanks bigchoc and Harriet. I plan on only doing 5k Good luck with your 100 mile challenge Harriet. Wow. I’m lucky to do the park run. I also hope to go swimming again. A bit is sea swimming. Nothing too ambitious. And also keep up the walking which I really enjoy as I can nose into people’s houses and gardens. Grin

inthethickofit19 · 29/06/2020 22:55

Been a stressful evening but Think I've finished at 566 although 129 of that was a cookie Blush plus another 290 for Weetobix as dh forgot I was fasting... had chicken mince cutlet for dinner so that's filled me up.

Night all

BigChocFrenzy · 29/06/2020 23:59

Well done inthethick for nailing a tough FD

5k should be fine on an FD, emcla
I recommend a (black) double espresso 5-10 minutes before you start:
it helps mobilise bodyfat stores for fuel

I do like the idea of nosing into other people's gardens, aka walking Grin

You sound raring to go with exercise, which is great

OP posts:
missfliss · 30/06/2020 06:52

Fast day here - and period pains starting😢 I think I'll be ok with the food but can I take painkillers as usual? ( probably paracetamol rather than ibuprofen on an empty stomach? )

annabell22 · 30/06/2020 08:02

@harriethoyle 100 miles?! Good luck with that. 5.2km every day and you'll have it in the bag!

FD2 for me this week, and my daily weigh in showed things are back moving in the right direction. I'm running every other day, and both last week and this my run days have coincided with my FDs. I need to manage that better for next week. No espresso for me though @BigChocFrenzy, I cannot bear the taste of coffee!

emcla · 30/06/2020 08:31

Good luck Ann. I’m fasting too

Bigchoc...one more question re running. I will be running on the streets and on concrete mainly. Long term is this bad for hip and knee joints and my back ?

moonlight1705 · 30/06/2020 08:49

I'm joining you on a FD today. I had a quick sneaky midweek weigh this morning and have lost 0.4kg of the 1kg I put on a couple of weeks ago so that's encouraging. Two good FDs should knock that down nicely.

harriethoyle · 30/06/2020 08:51

When I say running, I mean lumbering along like an ashmatic sloth wearing wellies Grin I've been on lockdown at my partner's because of his kids... some lovely running routes near my house I'm going to resume though when I return mid July! Til then I'm aiming for 2-3 mile walk a week day and longer ones at the weekend. If the rain holds off...

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