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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Beautiful3 · 25/06/2020 07:42

Thanks for the encouraging words @BigChocFrenzy and @DietChic. I feel much better now. I'll fast on friday. Welcome @morrisg1 and @charityRoyall. Wow BigChocFrenzy you are amazing to work out so much, especially in this heat. Interesting about the dark chocolate.

emcla · 25/06/2020 09:02

Best of luck inthethick. Drink lots of water.

I am one pound down under 9 stone. Delighted. Just find it hard to stay under 9 stone.

Good luck to all fasters today ! You can do this.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2020 09:07

Congratulations on your SV, emcla

9 stone is your "set point" and you are well within healthy BMI,
so it will take a lot of focus, persistence and patience to get to goal - but you have shown you have all these

Good luck, inthethick and any other Thursday fasters
DRINK plenty of water all day in this heat

OP posts:
Quackersandcheese3 · 25/06/2020 09:26

Morning all. Fast day here . A chicken salad and some fruit for me at some point. Doing this fasting plan alongside my husband. He decided to allocate a third of his cals towards an energy drink and cereal bar the other day! What a dingbat...Grin.

harriethoyle · 25/06/2020 10:05

Morning all! Signing in for FD2 of the week.

Accidentally missed lunch on FD1 and didn't realise til 2ish so pushed on through until 6ish for tea and it was SO much nicer having all my cals in one go! So am aiming for the same today. Will report back...

inthethickofit19 · 25/06/2020 11:19

Excellent SV @emcla !

@harriethoyle I find I manage best if I eat at 4pm. It's when I start to get really hungry and it's late enough to not make me want to eat again. Plus I try for early nights on FD's!

Waspie · 25/06/2020 13:01

I'm not keeping up with the thread, atm work is mad busy and there are family issues which are taking up most of my free time. I am skim reading though and "COVID crumbles" on the beige office food made me laugh! Congrats to all with SVs and NSVs Brew

I'm fasting today too harriet. Just made my cup of soup and am planning prawn stir fry for dinner. I find I'm hungriest at about 4pm too inthethickofit19 so on FD's I've moved tea time back to 5.30pm so that I know I don't have too long to wait when the pangs start.

I lost another half a kilo last week and have continued the Monday and Thursday fast days. In total I've lost 10Kg in 4 months. I've celebrated by ordering a new work suit in the John Lewis sale!

Good luck Thursday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2020 14:35

Good luck, Quackers, Harriet, Waspie

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2020 14:36

Congratulations on your SV, Waspie
10kg is a fab milestone
Enjoy your sleek new suit

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 25/06/2020 14:52

Wow Waspie, 10kg is a fantastic SV!

harriethoyle · 25/06/2020 18:56

Kitchen closed on 486!

I found today's push through tougher but I much prefer having all my cals in one hit. Tonight I had chilli, courgette, broccoli, 30g of cheddar and an apple. Which felt like a feast! I think the trick is to do it on a busy day and now my industry is getting back to normal, there are more of those around...

harriethoyle · 25/06/2020 18:56

@Waspie that is fabulous!!

Waspie · 25/06/2020 20:06

Thank you all, you are kind. It does feel good actually Grin

Well done harriet. Kitchen is also closed here - I'm not completely sure but somewhere between 425 and 475.

spatchcock · 25/06/2020 20:14

@waspie 10kg is awesome - great job.

I haven’t been posting, been a bit under the weather. Have managed my FDs this week but have just weighed in (it’s morning here) and am almost 1kg heavier than last week. Don’t understand that as I’ve done pretty well - so chalking it up to a weird fluctuation or water retention (can you retain water with a head cold?!).

Good luck all you Friday fasters, may the hungry hours slip by quickly.

inthethickofit19 · 25/06/2020 20:23

Had a rubbish afternoon and wanted to comfort eat but I've brushed my teeth and got into bed. I've lost the amazon fire stick control (or my toddler has) so no Netflix for me tonight. Gonna mumsnet and then hopefully asleep for 9pm. The heat is making me so tired.

Upsidedownrightnow · 25/06/2020 21:30

@Waspie well done on your loss thats amazing progress Smile I also like your celebrating style.

So in the last few days I have started making overnight oats which i have never made before, i put vanillia protein powder in and they are so tasty! As I realised that my sachets of porridge actually arnt great so this should be better even if it is more calories.

Upsidedownrightnow · 25/06/2020 21:31

@inthethickofit19 sorry to hear you havn't had a good afternoon but well done for not comfort eating Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2020 21:49

Well done on your FD, Harriet, waspie, inthethick

Protein porridge is excellent, upside nourishing and keeps you full
I get it in little pots, or from a big tub, but your DIY is resourceful

Spatchock Weight can fluctuate naturally from day to day, with water retention / release and undigested food
Drink plenty, to help things along

OP posts:
DietChic · 25/06/2020 22:52

I think I’m in for a Mini tomorrow- I just filled in MFP and cashews have come to get me! I have good options for food tomorrow so that’s all good.

spatchcock · 25/06/2020 23:33

@DietChic cashews are the creamy, buttery work of the devil! Thankfully they're so expensive, because it's impossible to eat just one.

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy, I know I have done well-ish this week so I'm going to go with retained water!

Enjoy your weekends everyone.

MazDazzle · 26/06/2020 00:25

Well done on that fantastic scale victory, emcla.

I always save my calories for dinner harriet. Once I start eating, it’s hard to stop. Especially if I don’t feel full up.

This heat is keeping all of my kids up. It was 11pm before I got them all settled and my youngest is in my bed! I do not co-sleep. I expect he’ll kick me all night and sleep horizontally with his feet digging into my ribs!

Day 1 of b2b today. As I was working it passed really quickly. Hopefully tomorrow will be just as easy! I’m still not drinking enough water though. Going to focus on that tomorrow.

moonlight1705 · 26/06/2020 07:08

I'm on my second FD of the week.

I did not sleep at all well last night, must have been the heat. I normally get to sleep by 11pm but it was nearly 2am before I finally went. Luckily I'm working from home and it's not too taxing today.

Beautiful3 · 26/06/2020 07:53

Well done @emcla! I'm fasting today. Think instead of splitting my calories between lunch and dinner, I'll just have dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/06/2020 08:00

Good luck, Maz, Moonlight

Spatchcock If you are also experiencing 30C, that can cause water retention too
It's almost certainly just a temporary water blip, so stay focused.

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 26/06/2020 08:17

Weighed after 2nd FD this week, TOTM still not arrived so think I still have some bloat. Weighed in at 9st 7.2

I was my lowest on the 17th July at 9st 6.7! Just got to keep going!

Ultimate Goal is between 8-8.5 stone.

Next mini goal is 9st 4lbs