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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and fast800 thread 19

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 10/05/2020 22:25

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
thenewaveragebear1983 · 22/06/2020 11:16

@fufulina I'm just a running wanker. I try and hide it, but it's true. I do try and do other things but nothing beats a nice long run...
I'm addicted! I'd imagine though that this week I will find it hard to run as often as I have been due to the heat so it's a good time to test the theory.

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fufulina · 22/06/2020 11:26

Ha! Fair enough. 😂

Cocobox · 22/06/2020 12:39

Hi everyone, bad day yesterday for me. Wine and crisps were my undoing. Hungover this morning. I am going to find some time today and write down my goals, menu plan and reread some of the Fast 800 book. I didn’t weigh this morning.

Brunch: Coffee, beans on toast
Dinner: Chicken salad
Snack: Can of coke

Itshotoday · 22/06/2020 16:05

Can I just ask how do you all avoid the hunger? I can eat a house on some days.

Can I also check if anyone is a binge eater - does this make it worse?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 22/06/2020 16:23

@Itshotoday I think with the hunger you do just sort of have to go with it. The first few days before you get used to it you can feel quite hungry. If you're really struggling, then eat, preferably protein or fat. If you end up having 900 or 1000 cals it's not the end of the world. You can try having a drink of water or a herbal tea if that might help.
With regards to the binge eating; I binge far worse when I have sugar then when I don't because it's carb addiction really that drives me to binge. When I have done this properly I've gone 6+ months without any binges on bread/choc/sweets etc. Recently I've found my head wandering to that 'binge mentality' which is a very unpleasant place for me, but oddly enough for me it's linked to being off plan not on it.

OP posts:
Itshotoday · 22/06/2020 18:31

Thanks waver. I didn’t think I had an eating disorder! Since lockdown though have been v capable of eating vast quantities (I’ve shocked myself! in one sitting.

Itshotoday · 22/06/2020 18:34

You went 6 months without do you think motivation has lagged during lock down.

I agree wholeheartedly the days I have thought I can eat I want as my health hasn’t been my priority I have ended up not stopping and achieving far less than I would have. I also find once started I find it hard to stop

thenewaveragebear1983 · 22/06/2020 19:39

@itshottoday I think deep down it's because I never really dealt with the stuff that makes me binge, and maybe those things are more apparent during lockdown? Particularly boredom (spent many childhood hours alone and bored) and also, ironically the one thing that makes me binge badly is that feeling of 'I'll never lose this weight, I can't do it ' (grew up with Dm on a permanent crash diet and she would constantly start new diets and fall off the wagon- it's in the fabric of my identity I think!) I used to be a heavy smoker too and one day I just literally stopped, and I sometimes think I eat when I used to smoke and I've never really dealt with that underlying addictive streak.

It's an emotional thing isn't it? I think we all have experienced that feeling where we're actually craving our dopamine hit and it's nothing to do with food/hunger. That's why when we feel like that we go 'wild'... choosing not one biscuit but one of each in the tin, and a kitkat, and knowing full well that if we just had one we'd be ok but by having 6 the diet is 'blown', but can then start again properly tomorrow. That's why it's such a radical change for me to allow more calories daily- I'm very much feast or famine in my mentality.

I don't believe I have an eating disorder but I do think I have incredibly disordered eating behaviour. I am finding for the first time ever that people are seeing my crazy food issues and I feel quite embarrassed.

Anyway, enough crazy ramblings... today has been a good day.
Went for a run, 15k steps, did yoga. 1250 cals and 43g carbs. I could quite happily chew my own arm off such is my overwhelming desire for something sweet, but then it is day 1 and I expected it really. Going to have a bath and try to avoid the fridge this evening.

Tomorrow: run in the early morning again, plus I need to walk into town (essential bank visit) so will get the steps in. Lunch will be smoked salmon and avocado, dinner will be turkey mince meatballs in Moroccan sauce, with veg.

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bluepixie · 22/06/2020 20:20

NOT looking fwd to scales tmrw.
Will catch up tmrw when I’m less drunk and have useful insightful comments to make!
I have planned tmrw though.....but Hope hangover doesn’t require carbs!
Xxx

Itshotoday · 22/06/2020 21:21

Waver - sorry to jump in on your thread and I’m sorry to hear you’re having the cravings. I don’t think you need be embarrassed, I know we’re all responsible for our own reactions, but, I haven’t heard of many who are managing to work and have no issues with food when at home.

I think it’s opportunity too- it’s there, it’s accessible, it’s boredom, it’s stress it’s using food like you used cigarettes as others use all sorts of things. Can you think back that actually Hoe great you felt when you were on it with diet and you didn’t live to eat.

Humans are mind blowing how we cope. I find hormones boredom and dread with work don’t help either. This am I just thought it’s Monday horrific day lined up lots of sadness and thought let myself eat whatever. That just wasn’t a useful strategy.

Think going strict low carb will help us perhaps? At least balance those cravings. I, like you love running (convinced that’s a mood related sport too- know lots who have gained the blues when had to give up running).

Clevererthanyou · 22/06/2020 21:33

You all do brilliantly with all this running! I became disabled about 8 years ago and I need a hip replacement among other things so I can barely walk to the post box. The disability came before the obesity and it does seem like the catalyst but I definitely have binge-sugar-eating issues. Has anyone succeeded with limited exercise before? :/

Kimlek · 22/06/2020 23:11

Very interesting chat ItsHotToday, Fufulina and bear. If you asked me if I binge eat I’d have replied ‘no’. But actually I have. Lots of times. Especially sweet stuff. Yet I’ve never once thought of it as binging. Instead I proclaim that the biscuits, cakes or whatever are more ish! So I’ve obviously taken no responsibility for it. Interesting how we view our eating habits. However, I’ve not done that for a good while. Re ketosis; I don’t think I’ve ever reached ketosis despite averaging around 800 cals per week bc I think my carbs are still on the high side and like bear insulin resistant. Interested to know what the cracker test is and how you’re planning to experiment. I just ride out the odd tummy rumbles. I’m certainly not ravenous but I’m very often fancying something. Peckish. Wanting a taste. Definitely not hunger. But like you ‘it’s hot today and bear* if I have breakfast Im a gannet all day. I don’t think it’s a diabetes thing given none of us 3 are.
Dog & Obama it’s actually worth looking at your macros as suggested by pheonix & bear. I think we concluded that my calcs & bears calcs were the same despite different equations. Your protein grams should be your goal weight in kg. So for me my goal weight is 63kg so I should have 63g protein. If someone has a lot to lose then their protein would be higher to ensure muscles mass etc. Carbs less than 50g then the rest fat. Are you using MFP or fat secret or similar as these tell you your macros.
Anyone else got a BellaBeat? They track steps etc. You can clip it on, wear as necklace or bracelet. I’ve had mine for a few years but haven’t worn it for ages as the battery ran out. Started wearing as a necklace yesterday but I’m a bit surprised as it’s saying my steps are 13000 by midday. I did do a 1.5 hour walk so around 7k but really? That seems high. I’m now wondering if it’s grossly inaccurate?
Anyway, closed kitchen at 8pm
728 cals / 45 carbs

Justasecondnow · 22/06/2020 23:17

Today’s effort -

Homemade veg soup
Left over BBQ meat & salad
Milk for tea

Pretty much 800 cals. Don’t know carbs as soup was leftover veg soup - ie broccoli stalks and random veggie fridge debris. Just couldn’t be bothered googling each ones carb content. Made a nice soup tho. Do find this diet is teaching me new habits... soup without bread and butter was once scandalous to me!

Also after my weekend bad behaviour did another 10k run after my one on sat. Unheard of to do two long (for me) runs so close and I did it w/out my usual porridge carb fuel. I guess needing that was in my head!

Interesting food discussions and hope you don’t feel too embarrassed bear I appreciate you sharing. And if I’m honest my relationship with food has been/is dysfunctional. So jealous of people who naturally eat healthy and never been on a diet (my other half for starters!)

Oh and happy birthday cream !

Sorry clevererthsnyou to bang on about exercise. I find it helps me but I think current wisdom suggests what you eat is more important than exercise?

Bestbees · 23/06/2020 07:18

Morning all. Last night I got up at 11 and reader my kitchen in a terrible binge. I haven't done that for so long. I think it was a combination of being so cross with myself over a mistake I made with work which is going to make next year much more difficult. And also having a bout of cystitis. 100% emotional eating. I feel sick and headchy today and so cross with myself! I do find myself binging occasionally and I hate it. Up 3lb on the scale too! Waaah!
Plan for today is prawn and avo mayo at lunch
Dinner salmon with filo and veg.
WATER!!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/06/2020 07:39

@kimlek I think the fact that you don't label it as bingeing is a good thing. Binge is such a horrible word isn't it? And it makes a normal, albeit maybe excessive, food incident seem like some hideous dirty behaviour. The labels we use about food, and ourselves, are so important aren't they.
One thing I'm not sure that I stated clearly enough yesterday- when I follow this plan I eat so much more positively. I stop a lot of the food weirdness. I can't remember who it was that asked about binge eating now, but I would say that it can help if you calm that sugar addiction right down. but if you eat for those emotional reasons, it can be wise to prepare for feeling a little raw and jangly nerved when your 'bandaid' is ripped off. I use a journal to help me jot down how I feel and why.

@clevererthanyou there have been lots of people who have done this with little to no exercise, either by choice or like yourself, because they have been limited by their disability, so I'm sure you will still lose weight. I hope that the plan works for you because it really can be life changing

And onwards to this morning. Took all my resolve not to weigh myself this morning, I'm determined to keep off the scales til Friday.
Going for a run first thing, then going to walk into town (feels very strange as it's over 3 months!). Food is planned. Lots of water. All good!

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bluepixie · 23/06/2020 07:57

Morning all. Lots of interesting talk about food/binge/emotional eating. I’m really good al week then binge at weekends. It’s really stalling my weight loss. Some weekends I manage others I don’t....

I won’t say wot my scales said today after Father’s Day and yest but anyways I’m back on plan.
Avacado and egg this am
Feta salad lunch
Chicken and veg this evening
I have friends coming for a take away but I’m having a side salad and eating dinner before they come. I know that’s bizzare but ow today would be a write off and it’s more to see them rather than to have a wonderful meal. None of us are drinking (thank god)

PhoenixMama · 23/06/2020 09:42

Morning all - bloody Mumsnet's not updating me on the thread lol.

I definitely have binged in the past, since starting this WOE I do it far, far less (and when I do binge it's far far less than it was before). Mine is definitely emotional - when I'm dealing with something hard I eat, when I'm dealing with uncomfortable emotions I eat. There's definitely an element of 'I can do whatever I want so I'm going to do this!' stroppiness to me eating.

Yesterday was a bit off the rails for me - rookie error of not eating enough at lunch and then getting stuck out, hungry and in the supermarket. (But again nothing compared to what I could have done 18 months ago). I also got up and dragged my butt out of bed early to get a weights workout in before having to do the school run. I forgot how awful waking up and having to be somewhere was!

Someone asked about my weights - a friend of mine just showed me one of her low impact workouts (she has the most amazing, curvy, strong body) and I've been doing them at home with 1kg, 2kg & 3kg weights but she sometimes uses tins of baked beans!

Here's the workout I use in case it helps any of you, you do each set 3 times:

10 x squats w/overhead arm raises (1kg)
10 x lunges w/side arm lifts (1kg)

10 x backward lunges w/side arm raises (1kg)
10 x side lunges w/ arm raises (1kg)

10 x squats w/schwarzenegger curls (2kg)
10 x side squats w/arm raises (2kg)

10 x deadlifts (3kg)
10 x rows (3kg)

10 x Curtsy Lunges w/bicep curls (3kg)
10 x Squat with 20 x punches (2kg)

Itshotoday · 23/06/2020 11:29

I asked about the bingeing Waver, as since lockdown that’s been an issue perhaps it more just mindless eating. Is food so much nicer when you’re savouring every bite not just chucking it down to feel soothes. I’m really interested to hear your experience thank you for sharing. I was also really interested to hear that fast800 is helping reduce rather than increase the overeating - some advice given for overeating is eat regularly not avoiding meals - this hasn’t been helpful for me during lockdown.

Clevererthanyou - one thing that had caught my eye about fast800 was that lots of wheel chair users are reported on other forums to have done really well with fast800.

It sounds like you have all found a plan that works and being human is having days that are more challenging and working out why that is.

collywobble · 23/06/2020 11:48

I am so hungry this morning and still no scales movement. I am determined to stick to TRE so watching the clock with lots of water and black coffee. I have booked a doctors appointment to check bloods to see if there is any indication as to why I'm not losing much. I've been five weeks on plan now with the only blip being two weekends drinking alcohol no bread, potatoes, sugar, pasta I've lost half a stone which is the most I have lost in the last two years but I was expecting more with such a reduction in calories although I've always reduced carbs I still need to lose another 10 pounds at least . Or should I just be happy with a slow loss even though it was mostly in the first couple of weeks and persevere?

fastnfurious · 23/06/2020 12:10

Hey everyone, I started the Fast800 yesterday and thought I'd join in with the thread for support and to also support others! I'm just reading through the thread now to catch up.

I've got 4st to lose! I have tried so many diets, lost a ton of weight on slimming world but have regained it all and then some. I can't bring myself to eat low fat anymore as I don't believe it's healthy. I love the idea of keto and low carb but it's so hard to actually stick to. I have 3 kids and so cooking for them always breaks me eventually.

Today I'm collecting my Tesco shop with a weeks worth of Mediterranean style dinners that the whole family can eat...

As a little side note, my partner (who is not overweight) has decided to do the diet with me. I'm not complaining as it's going to help me if he's not snacking beside me in the evenings but he also hates literally every vegetable on the earth so I think he's going to really struggle... kind of makes me giggle inside as he's so unempathic about dieting and thinks it's all down to lack of willpower and lack of planning when I fail repeatedly. So watching him come off his daily red bull addiction while we stick to 800 cal a day may just open his eyes to what it's really like for dieters and the struggles we face.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/06/2020 12:44

@fastnfurious welcome! My dh is the same and if he notices he's gained a few pounds he'll give up crisps for a weekend and lose 7lbs.

Do you know what the difference is though? He only eats when he's hungry. It's so simple and sounds so easy, but basically that's it. He eats as much of whatever he wants and never feels deprived, because he only eats to satisfy actual hunger. If he eats something really calorific, he then won't be hungry til later. I on the other hand eat for myriad reasons and only one of them is when I'm actually hungry! Grin

Yummy lunch today: smoked salmon, avocado, marscapone cheese, lots of salt and pepper- mushed up like a pate and spread on cucumber slices!

Blood sugar diet and fast800 thread 19
OP posts:
fastnfurious · 23/06/2020 12:50

@thenewaveragebear1983 thank you 😊

Mmmmm your lunch does look delicious!

Haha... yes men do seem to lose a lot quicker and easier for some reason. Your DH sounds similar to mine. He really doesn't tie any emotion to his eating at all! I do think he will struggle coming off his sugar intake though! Yes, hunger is just one of the reasons I like to eat too Grin along with to celebrate and commiserate and for every reason I'm between but I want to break those habits so bad!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/06/2020 13:00

God yeah, "food is fuel" is sooooo dull isn't it? Grin

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bluepixie · 23/06/2020 14:31

Yes my DH is “skinny” can forget to eat if busy / only eats when hungry / and makes consciously healthy food choices. I however miss a meal and go on and on about it!
On plan so far. Should be in at 850 and 36 carbs today (if I only have side salad for takeaway!)

Itshotoday · 23/06/2020 15:35

I wonder if it’s a hormone thing (clutching at straws?) my hubby is exactly the same.

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