Blood sugar diet and fast800 thread 19

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.


Some useful links



Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread


<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

[Bestbees]

I. Sure hormones are to blame! My husband is slim and tall and does not eat with guilt either.
I on the other hand have been filling my face today and I am sure it is because my period is due!

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Yes I agree it's partly hormones. With my dh I think it's as simple as his insulin control throughout his life has been so much better (partly hormones, partly genes, partly behaviour passed from his parents who are naturally slim) that he's never learned to eat in that emotional way. He's always been sporty and I think he's coasted on that for a few years decades

By contrast, His jaw dropped to the floor when I said I literally cannot remember a time in my entire adult life where I have eaten something and not mentally assessed it as good/bad/calorific /worth it/ not worth it/ Xxx calories .... every single thing I put in my mouth I mentally calculate it in 'weight' terms. Since before I can remember food has always been about so much more than nourishment and had been really heavily linked to relationships, treats, punishment and reward. My parents are still like it now: they don't cook for pleasure, they buy massive packs cheap, the cheapest beans, the cheapest fruit, the cheapest bread (they aren't poor btw), they never season food or think 'ooooh let's have some xxx' , they eat purely for function and then eat lots of sugary rubbish/ cakes/ bread as 'treats' and then punish themselves for not sticking to whatever diet it is.

The one thing about this plan is that it's real food, nourishing, and so tasty. My mum read the book and said it wasn't for her, the meals are too fancy and too much cooking. Says it all (and yes, they are both overweight and T2!)

Someone asked about the cracker test: it's a v simple test. You get a plain cracker like a Jacobs cream cracker or a breadstick. Chew it really slowly and see when it starts to turn sweet in your mouth. This is the enzymes breaking down the starches into sugar in your saliva. The quicker it turns sweet, in theory the more tuned in to sugar you are, and the less of it you can eat. When I do this test, it doesn't go sweet at all. That's probably why I can eat so much sugar without feeling ill!

[Cocobox]

Hi my lovelies, sorry I’ve been quiet, lost track of time, feel like it’s been days. Will catch up on thread tomorrow. Hurt my back (no exciting story just splashing my face with cold water at the sink) and have been in a lot of pain. Luckily my DH is a good one and did all the bits and pieces I couldn’t and cheerfully. It’s much better now. I really really need to strengthen my back with pilates or yoga. My big tummy doesn’t help either I’m sure. It’s always with me that I’ll join a class when I am less chubby, bit of a vicious circle.

Probably a good day diet wise. I just had a coffee and a slice of cold chicken and green salad. Having one large glass of wine now with ibuprofen. Then early night.

Clevererthanyou I keep reading that it’s all about what we eat rather than the exercise like we were told a few years ago.

Keep going everyone. Remember why you are doing this.

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Ouch @Cocobox hope you are ok. A few of us do YouTube Yoga with Adrienne, she's brilliant even for complete beginners and does lots specifically for the back. I'm trying to get Back into daily practice as it's so good for me, I really feel energised by it abc it's so good for me to properly stretch.

Finishing today on 1280 cals but 66 g carbs (so not really low) because I ate quite a bit of fruit today (a perfectly ripe nectarine and some cherries!). I rarely eat fruit except frozen raspberries so it felt like a real treat. I did 16k steps (a run and a walk) and my yoga so that's ok. I am enjoying the freedom of a few extra calories.

Tomorrow, it's going to be hot! I will attempt to get out for a short run before the real heat, and then fast til lunchtime. Lunch will be salad and some protein (ham probably) and dinner will be a lovely salmon stir fry with loads of veg.

[Justasecondnow]

Oh no cocobox hope you’re on the mend. Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Today’s efforts with a little HIT workout.. Always goes so well in the week. Just the weekends that get me.

2 boiled eggs & reduced sugar baked beans
Chicken lime laksa (from BSD book. So nice!)
Milk for tea

Cals 810 Carbs 38

I have a week off work with my other half in about 2 weeks. I will be 7 weeks in at that point & prob at least 7lb from my goal. Plan was a week off BSD diet then back on it for an undecided amount of time. But I have no idea how to eat some of the food I like with out jumping off the deep end. I think I might go with the week off proper, eat what I want and accept I’ll put some weight back on but commit to recording it all and calorie counting it up at the end of the day. Might keep me a bit in check. Anyone else got any good strategies for times like holidays etc. Where you want to ease up but in a not scoff everything way?

[fufulina]

Hi @Justasecondnow I’m in the same boat! By the end of week 9 (next weekend) we start going away every weekend. First social/holiday things and I’m trying to work out a strategy.

I think I’ve come to the conclusion that I can’t go off plan - particularly with refined carbs - I worry that I wouldn’t get back on plan. My mental strength is fragile! Also this woe has been so successful for me I don’t want to piss around jumping in and out of ketosis for 6 weeks.

So am going to stay on plan, in terms of low carb, but up cals to 1400 and include wine/gin for Friday and Saturday each weekend and log everything. After 9 weeks of nothing that will feel luxurious (can’t work out if that’s an achievement or an indictment!). And TBF low carb is well catered for in restaurants and pubs. That’s the plan anyway.

I’ve made peace with no refined carbs while I’m losing. And then only during holidays and Christmas (not weekends!) when I’m at target. I can of course eat refined carbs, but not if I want to be slim. For me, I cannot do both. But I’ve reframed it as my active choice, rather than feeling deprived. It’s a journey!

[Bestbees]

Morning all. Feeling miserable here with cystitis and period.pain. bloated and grumpy! Will try and keep out of the fridge.

Coco I hope your back is improving.

Fufilina sounds like you have a sensible plan, I am sure it will go smoothly.

Plan for today:
Quiche for lunch with salad (mini one with filo crust)
Dinner Quorn and cashew stir fry.
Water and mint tea to ease the bloat!

[Cocobox]

Morning everyone, thanks my back is much better than yesterday, in half the pain. Feel relieved. I am definitely going to try Adrienne’s you tube channel as soon as this has mended. I last did yoga 25 years ago! Thanks for the recommendation.

I weighed and I’ve put some back on, my body is kind of seized up so I feel it’s holding onto everything.

B Coffee
L Slice of cold chicken
D Lentils, onion, kale all panfried

Bestbees poor you, I hate cystitis. First time I got it was after my honeymoon, GP told me in a very brusque fashion. I went home and wept thinking my new DH had given me a std. Have you got something from the chemists?

[PhoenixMama]

Morning all!

About the same this morning - can't seem to get enough water in me at the moment. Went for a 5km walk with a very whingey DD this morning so it was good but I was losing my mind with her!

@fufulina When I was doing this properly last year (and lost 4 stone) there were several times where I took a long weekend or a week off and generally it never took more than 8/9 days of being totally on plan again to lose whatever I gained and then some. Sometimes allowing yourself off-plan rather than the stress of turning nice things down when you're away is better. This isn't a diet but a woe and if you can't have nice things once in a while then what's the point? I definitely don't want to live a life where I can't celebrate a birthday or success or enjoy myself on holiday regardless of size.

Today is burgers for dinner with grilled corn and asparagus, lunch is salad with ham and breakfast was 2 eggs and half a piece of toast.

And I'm going to try and enjoy the sun today!

[fufulina]

I totally agree @phoenixmama but when I did this before (and also lost about 3 stone and kept it off for about 2 years) I clearly didn’t manage to actually change my woe, as over time it all came back as I abandoned the Low carb principles one by one.

For me the thing is that if I think that white toast is a ‘treat’ then I have fundamentally misunderstood the damage that does to me. It’s not a treat, it was causing me all sorts of problems. For me I need to reframe treat. A bit like as I have got older I no longer want a toasted marshmallow at a bbq - just don’t fancy it. That’s how I need to be with refined carbs. If I think that going on holiday and eating loads of sugar is a treat, then I won’t succeed in remaining slim, because over time I will slowly abandon the principles again and gradually eat more carbs. Been there and done it and ended up obese.

Totally appreciate that this approach isn’t for everyone, but I’ve come to the realisation that I can be slim, or consider refined carbs a ‘treat’. I can’t. So I need to rethink what a treat is for me. I stopped smoking five years ago. I wouldn’t dream of having a fag now. I think there are parallels for me.

[thenewaveragebear1983]

@fufulina I agree with both you and @PhoenixMama. In the long term maintenance camp then obviously there will be times when we have things we 'shouldn't have'; it's normal and we're human. But I agree that changing our definition of 'treat' can only be a positive change. Invariably, those treats don't make me feel good, which sort of defeats the point doesn't it?! When I successfully gave up sugar and carbs m, literally bit a grain of sugar passed my lips in 6 months, the key for me was that I regularly reminded myself that sweet=fat. And fat = unhappy (and I really was). I'm struggling to recreate that currently, but at the time I would see a plate of cake and see it almost like poison.

Some things I have managed successfully to keep off, even if I'm 'off plan' are pasta, cereal, cows milk, potato products, rice, tomato sauce, fruit juice, full sugar drinks etc. I genuinely have not eaten these in maybe 3 years (cows milk 1 year) and I cannot see me eating them. My mind just doesn't equate them as food; in the same way as @fufulina you say about cigarettes. I'd never smoke again now. But sugar, sweets, cakes etc... oh I still very much see then as food! Maybe I need I go back into that zone and try to eradicate a few more things, life would be much easier if I could do that!

[Justasecondnow]

Hi fufulina and phoenixmama thanks for both of your thoughts on weeks off. The differing strategies you have picked both make sense to me! I just have to work out which will work for me. Can I go off plan, enjoy the refined carbs within reason and get back on it. Or should I really think if my good times = treat time is a healthy outlook for me long term. I am mulling it over! I think it depends to what extent relaxing triggers bingeing and or as I think thenewaveragebear coined it.... an excessive food event!

I mean in terms off dilemmas to have considering what’s been going on recently I should count myself lucky.

[fufulina]

@thenewaveragebear1983 yes -
pasta and sandwiches are things I just haven’t gone back to since 2012. I just don’t eat it. Same with juices, smoothies, and increasingly pastries. I never drink beer. Bread though - that’s my kryponite. That and cheap chocolate. I could eat both of those almost without ever getting ‘full’.

[bluepixie]

Hi girls

Really interesting chat about food...I totally agree with all of you! I’ve just had my bday and Father’s Dayand I didn’t want to “deprive” myself but I bascailly binged. I don’t want a life where I can’t eat freely and enjoy holidays and occasions but for me eating freely equates to falling off plan again and gaining weight. I’ve no idea how I’ve stayed between bmi 24-26 for years the way I eat.....I think once I hit bmi 25.5 I Bascailly freak out and slim down again.

like you @thenewaveragebear1983 rice/pasta/white bread/juice/tomato ketchup is just not on my menu ever. And I don’t miss it. Infact I see it as a waste of calories and empty nutrition. However chocs/cake/wine is still on my menu and somehow I need to realise this stuff isn’t good for me and if I want it I can have 1 choc not 1000 but I can’t seem to manage this....I’m all...or nothing. But I’ve noticed slim people are just casual about it all.

I gotSo much choc for my bday from friends and family. God knows why - anyways I’ve given it all to dh who has hidden it.

I’m back on it today with a terrible gain from the last 3 days (as it all over spilled into yest and I obv didn’t have the side salad when my girl friends came over last night for a garden take away).

Brekkie was home made Avacado smoothie
Lunch chicken stir fry
Dinner halloumi tray bake.

Oh and I’m about to throw away the last bit of cake because we all know I’ll eat it tonight (when I struggle the most).

[thenewaveragebear1983]

@Cream123 yes. For me it's not a case of either being on plan or being on plan + maybe an ice cream or a piece of birthday cake. It's a Case of being on plan or being completely and utterly off plan, with huge quantities of sugar like it's going out of fashion. I have very little self control. I'm trying to change that though. It would be a lot more manageable a prospect if I could stop after 1 taste. To echo @fufulina as well, it's great if I can have a day or even a week where I'm not so strict; the problem is when it's every week something different (or some weeks it can be something every day!)

[thenewaveragebear1983]

In fact I'm going to challenge myself there. It's not that I have very little self control. I have self control in lots of other areas of my life. I've just taught myself that I have no self control!

[bluepixie]

Same @thenewaveragebear1983. Exactly the same. I don’t know how to change it!!!
I’m thinking maybe if I get to goal I can do some sort of 5 days on plan 2 doing wotever I want?? But that’s what I’ve been doing the last month or so which has has meant no weight loss but swapping from 10.8.5 to 11 every week or so depending on wot mood I’ve been in.

[bluepixie]

Not to self
I feel better and more postive about myself and my body eating healthy nourishing food. Rather than stuffing my face with sugar getting bloated and feeling guilty.
Today is a good day!

[bluepixie]

Kitchen closed at 877 and 27 carbs
Halloumi tray bake lovely. I put the garlic and a chilli in with the veg. Was delish.
Dh wants wine in garden. I’m not tempted for once

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Closing the kitchen on 1250 cals, 66g carbs, 16k steps (inc a run and 2 school runs) and I will do yoga later once I've tidied up a bit.

Food was really wholesome and tasty, and I didn't feel like I was grazing so mindlessly. I've calmed that constantly looking fir fish feeling, probably by actually sticking to plan....

Tomorrow: no run tomorrow, my knees need a rest. There's a 1hour long yoga on Adrienne's channel that if I am up early enough I might try, but if not it will be too hot! It's my official last day at my job tomorrow as it's end of the FE term and I am leaving for a new post. So that's a bit strange that there is no official goodbye. Food will be egg mayo for lunch and dinner will be possibly a bbq to capitalise on the lovely weather, or a Moroccan meatballs thing I keep meaning to make!

[Kimlek]

Closing kitchen at 847 but 57 carbs (avoiding alcohol but cordials are bit carby 🙄)

[Kimlek]

I agree with your thoughts around treats, deprivation & carbs. I’ve not had pasta, rice, cereals for years. I had 3 or 4 strands of pasta on Sunday. Just don’t see the point. Restaurants are great at giving you a portion of veg or salad instead of their carb offering and I’ve done that for years. But cakes, chocolate, alcohol.... totally different story.
But I love food. I wasn’t raised that way. My parents used to say they wished you could just take a pill and be nourished and done with it. Horror of horrors!!!
I adore food. We all do. Delicious tastes and flavours. Not necessarily ‘fancy’ but different and new. Hence a million cookbooks. My 3 DDs do too thank heavens and love experimenting with dishes. They play Masterchef a couple of times a year and it’s seriously impressive. I’ve never thought about people having a ‘relationship’ with food before. It’s fascinating. The downside for us though is that it’s about taste and not nutrition. We now, as a family, need to bring the two together more.

[Clevererthanyou]

Kitchen closed at under a 1000 calories and very limited carbs, no change on the exercise front but realistically I am limited as to what I can do.
I’m really interested in the talk about binge habits and low self control, I tried looking into therapy of some sort to help me deal with my lack of control when it comes to sweet things so I won’t return to the way I was. Has anyone here tried self-help to assist with self control?

[thenewaveragebear1983]

@Clevererthanyou I had some hypnotherapy and it was brilliant, my friend is a hypnotherapist. The only reason I stopped was because I was concerned about the length of the therapy course and because she's a close friend I was worried about letting her down (which I know is bloody stupid when I say it aloud!). I've used various self hypno apps too. There's a book available on kindle called 'you can be thin' that has an audio download with it, and I found that very good too.

That reminds me that I haven't listened to it for a while and I will endeavour to do so tomorrow.

[Bestbees]

Morning all. The hypno chat is really interesting I think I will look into it.

I am up 3lb and very cross. I know it is because I have been off track so really trying to be back on it from today, line drawn. Hoping some of it is preperiod weight too.
Lunch- mini fill quiche
Dinner - pork burger and coleslaw followed by Yog and berries.