Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
InterstellarDrifter · 29/04/2020 11:59

@BigChocFrenzy your 2 hr walk sounds amazing.

A non fast day for me today.
I’m trying quinoa porridge!. It’s simmering on the stove at the moment.
Lunch will be lentil soup and dinner will be chicken, brown rice and veg. Dd made some chocolate banana cake yesterday. I fought temptation. It was a tough battle as it smelled so gorgeous but will have a bit today Smile

Hope everyone else has a good day.

TheBuriedGiant · 29/04/2020 12:01

I’m doing my 2nd fast day today BCF. Good luck today, sounds like you have a lovely day ahead!
Really dull here weather wise but been for a walk with ds this morn and back now for lunch. Had coffee this morn with oat milk and having soup for lunch and then salmon and veg for tea. Feeling much hungrier today than my other fast day already!

InterstellarDrifter · 29/04/2020 12:57

I can report back that I did not enjoy quinoa porridge Sad

StripeyLurcher · 29/04/2020 13:03

No quinoa is not a good porridge! I do like it as a savoury rice substitute but it is no good sweet.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2020 16:25

Good luck, Giant

Drifter I've had buckwheat as a porridge / rice pud and that is nice,
but quinoa only really works as a savoury side imo - and then it is much tastier & filling than rice

Stripey Noone to date on these threads has ever liked quinoa porridge !
Maybe I should put a warning below the next OP Wink

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2020 16:26

Giant People often feel hungrier on their 2nd FD than on their 1st ever
but you know you can nail this; not too long to go now

OP posts:
AnPo · 29/04/2020 18:28

Second fast day done here. Luckily I slept late (very rare occasion with two preschoolers!) had a bit of a slip from my planned menu when DH come home with my favorite spelt bread Blush so lunch was a slice of that with a scraping of butter. Just had salmon and veg for dinner so the kitchen is now closed.

Might aim for a third FD on Friday just to get a proper kickstart for my first week back.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2020 18:30

Well done, AnPo a healthy FD
Catching up on sleep halps maximise fasting & health benefits

OP posts:
InterstellarDrifter · 29/04/2020 19:15

@BigChocFrenzy thanks for the buckwheat tip. I love porridge but oat porridge seems to send me crashing a couple of hours later so I’m trying to avoid it. I’m desperate for a replacement!

Do people still count calories on a non fast day? I tried to be sensible, had a treat here and there (well banana cake and a few potato wedges) but I didn’t count calories.
I’m doing another fast day tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 00:53

Drifter Most people can lose on 5:2 without counting NFD calories,
just following the 5:2 healthy guidelines, which allow sensible amounts of treats

I advise newbies to try without counting first, unless you are in a great hurry

Only if you find later you aren't losing as expected,
then a 1 week reality check on mfp can identify if a habit needs retraining:
hidden calorie bombs, too many treats / booze, or just portion size of healthy foods

OP posts:
AnPo · 30/04/2020 07:53

First weigh in after FD number two and I'm 4lbs down. Very pleased!

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

moonlight1705 · 30/04/2020 09:07

Excellent loss there AnPo that must be a good boost Smile

I am on my 2nd FD of the week and it's miserable outside so all I want to do is eat. Must resist and get on with writing my essay and report which are due in on Sunday! procrastination alert

Bestbees · 30/04/2020 09:21

Well done anpo!

Moon I hear you, it is terrible weather here! FD for me too.plan is lunch of roasted mushroom and quinoa salad. Dinner is beef stir fry.
I know it is my NFD that ruin it for me. But trying to be kind to myself at this difficult time.
Anyone else joining us today?

Waspie · 30/04/2020 10:24

Well done on your SV AnPo!

Hope your mini went well yesterday BCF. I do envy your Rhine walks Smile

I'm having an FD today too - usual chicken noodle cup-a-soup for lunch and then teriyaki salmon with stir fried veg and maybe a few wholewheat noodles for dinner. Trying to stop eating as many eggs as I'm prone to constipation and I think the eggs are exacerbating the problem.

I use MFP to track my calories on NFDs although I can now judge quite well what is in TDEE for me as we tend to have a rolling menu and most I've logged in MFP over the weeks. That's one thing lockdown has been good for - no takeaways or pub lunches!

Weather is not so nice here too (Berkshire). Not raining too badly when I took the dog out early on but squally and dark with random rain storms.

Waspie · 30/04/2020 10:25

Good luck Thursday fasters Brew

Hellokitty105 · 30/04/2020 10:35

I think I might do another FD today. I planned to do it tomorrow but I don’t usually eat breakfast so I’ll see how I get on. I like that I can change my mind and do it tomorrow if I want to. My week is all planned out so it doesn’t matter if I swop the days around.

DietChic · 30/04/2020 11:00

FD today - I’m having black coffee and planning to grit through to a late lunch. I have soup and an omelette planned so hopefully I can get on with it and not cave.

I think the longer I leave it to eat, the more successful my FDs are usually. And teeth brushing essential!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 11:30

Congratulations on your SV, AnPo
Good start

Good luck BestBees, Moonlight, Waspie, Kitty, Chic
and stay focused despite the outside dreariness

Moolight If you focus fully on your work, that usually drives out hunger for hours
Also, when fasting, your thought processes are often sharper
Win-win Smile

Brushing teeth is an excellent strategy to stop eating after meals, Chic especially after supper

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 30/04/2020 12:24

Had a good mini on Tuesday at just over 1200, and stayed under TDEE yesterday, rewarded with a 1 lb loss this morning so back to 9:11. Couch to 5K is going well although I’ve had to repeat weeks 3 & 4 because we had a fortnight of self isolation, so I’m repeating previous runs at the moment. On course to start week 5 next week Smile. Staying away from the biscuit tin and generally feeling quite positive. Have a great day everyone Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2020 13:30

Congratulations on your SV, Sydney
and on your NSVs for exercise and sweet junk
That's excellent you feel so positive

OP posts:
emcla · 30/04/2020 15:24

Well done on Sv anpo and Sydney. Wow. I’m on a fast day too. Hold tight everyone not long now. Big wave 👋

InterstellarDrifter · 30/04/2020 17:29

Well done Anpo and Sydney.
I got on the scales today and am 5lbs down. I’m so pleased with that as I’ve now gone out of the obese bmi range and back into overweight.
Now to head down to norma/healthy Smile

I hope everyone else is having a good day.

TheBuriedGiant · 30/04/2020 17:48

Well done Drifter, Anpo and Sydney!

I had a good FD yesterday, weighed myself this morning and have lost 3lbs, so feeling delighted. Today I’ve kept to my TDEE and done a 20 min workout and had a short walk. Feeling good Smile thanks for all the ongoing support all and hope everyone else is having a good day.

moonlight1705 · 30/04/2020 19:15

Amazing news for both of you drifter and buried that is such a good result.

I've finished my FD on slightly more than I had hoped as didn't have a key ingredient for what I had planned. Ended on 702 so still not too bad.

SydneyCarton · 30/04/2020 19:26

Wow drifter, anpo and buried that’s brilliant!

I never thought I’d actually enjoy going for a run at 7 am (I’ve run on and off for years and always left it till the end of the day) but when it’s the only time I’ll be out of the house (and alone!!!) it’s such an incentive. It’s a real mood booster as well; I feel much better able to cope with the day afterwards.