5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Essential I am so sorry about your pregnancy sounds like you have a lot on with the covid response while so many of us are cocooned in our houses.

Managed a fairly ok mini fast yesterday, and agree with others low carb really helps as have managed first sub 800 mini today

Sorry to hear your sad news, Hummus 💐

Sounds like you don't need FDs atm, just 12:12
and healthy TLC NFDs to support you during a tough time at work too
Say 3-4 nutritious meals per day, no snacks between, NHS alcohol limits, plenty of water and sleep

Well done on your miniFD, Yum

That sounds like a decent mini, BestBees Good save
I always recommend against a heavy night before an FD - fasting with a sore head and feeling fragile makes it very difficult.

Welcome back, Anpo
and good luck on your 1st FD for quite a while

Good luck also, Chic, Waspie , Moan and any other fasters

Upside Daily 16:8 is still a daily diet, which is the downside for many people

If you are worried about FDs, I suggest the alternative system of 3 minifFDs,
which gives about the same weight loss as 5;2 for most people

i.e. 800-1000 calories on say Mon+Wed+Fri
and the other 4 days relax and have a daily treat, but only as part of a meal, no snacks between meals

==> I strongly recommend against weighing multiple times per day

It's pretty meaningless

Weight varies naturally up to 1-2 lb during the day, with digestion / undigested food, water retained / released, toilet etc
Weight also varies from day to day, hence why it is best to look at the trend over 2-3 weeks
_
weigh under consistent conditions:_

. The morning after the 2nd FD of the week
. First thing in the morning, naked, after loo but before first drink of water.
. Reliable scales, referably digital.
. Change batteries frequently
. Scales should be on a dry, level hard surface, not carpet.
. Keep scales in exactly the same place every day. Type of flooring, slight slopes etc all affect things.
. After switching on, wait 3 secs before stepping on, because the scales need to calibrate.
. Don't jump on; step slowly on so that both feet are fully on
. Don't lean to one side or to the front /back.
. Keep still until you take the reading, no fidgeting or leaning

Hi everyone. I tried to post earlier but it failed. Anyway here I am. Waves to everyone. A successful fd completed here. Lots of activity on this thread which is lovely to see.

Sorry to hear your news essential. Big hugs.

Well done to all Monday fasters. I’m trying to kick start myself. My Dc have been baking lots which doesn’t help. Will try another fd on wed or Thursday. Night all.

Going to be generous with myself and call it a mini. I was so hungry today I ate my evening meal for lunch then had quite a lot of low sugar chocolate in the evening.

I honestly think the work out made me that hungry - I usually have things slightly more under control! NFD tomorrow then Weds as a proper FD and depending on my mood, maybe Friday.

Frustrating!

Sorry to hear about your pregnancy essential and thanks for your service working in the Covid response. Just look after yourself at this time and eat as healthy as possible.

I got through the FD but feeling hungry quite a lot. My food was about 500cals but the milk in my coffees pushed it up I didn't measure my milk but reducing that is the next goal. I also want to come up with a slightly lower cal but still filling meal for my next FD. I liked my salmon but it's quite high calories and I was thinking something lower calorie might be better. My soup was ok but not my favourite flavour so might try to change that too! I think having 2 meals is working quite well on my FD though, so will carry on with that next time.

Hello. I’ve been looking 5.2 and did my first fast day yesterday. It went better than I thought it would have.
I’ve done 16.8 for a while but I wasn’t really losing much weight. I decided I needed to restrict myself more.
I’m aiming to do 3 fast days a week or alternate day fasting.
Has anyone been doing that here? I would really like to know how you found it and what sort of results you got.

@StripeyLurcher - I have done 5:2 years ago and did manage to fast ok, so I think your right I will try it again. Do people have more success combining 16:8 and 5:2? Will you loose weight quicker?

@Bestbees - yes 1400 calories each day is too hard for me I think I will try to fast on friday

@EssentialHummus - sorry to hear the news about your pregnancy, hope you are doing ok especially with being so busy right now xx

@Hellokitty105 - wow 5lbs loss in a week you must be over the moon :) well done

@Moanranger - i remember you saying on another day about the broccoli soup and 'using up ends' do you use the stalk but of broccoli that we don't normally eat? I love broccoli soup, how many calories is in it? Can you share the recipe?

@BigChocFrenzy - i am going to weigh again in the morning to see where I am and then try not to weigh again for a while. how you describe weighing is how I normally weigh, but I just caved in today.

@InterstellarDrifter - were you also calorie counting with 16:8?

Essential I’m so sorry for your loss, I hope you’re doing ok.

My first FD went better than I thought it would, had coffee with milk in the morning, carrot and butternut squash soup for lunch and then chicken stew for tea. I made the stew using chicken we had left over, once I started cooking, the hunger really hit but managed to wait until tea before eating anything. I did have one snack once ds was in bed which isn’t good I know but all in all had 600 cals so feel ok about it. Will work on no snacking from now on.
Thanks for the advice on weighing BCF, I’m going to try and only weigh myself once a week!

Morning all, so i have weighed myself this morning and i am still 10stone so intermittent fasting for nearly a week plus walking every morning for an hour hasnt helped atall

I think i will eat upto tdee for the rest of the week and then start fasting on Friday

Managed a good NFD yesterday and today is a FD. I usually just have my 1 meal around 6/7 then I’m not tempted to eat more. Good luck Tuesday fasters!

I'm sorry to hear your news Hummus Thank you for the work you are doing. I hope you get to concentrate on eating healthily for a while.

My FD yesterday was good - kitchen closed on 460. I'm having an NFD today and tomorrow then FD on Thursday. I'm going to do salmon teriyaki as an alternative to omelette!

Congrats on your first FD Interstellar!

Good luck Tuesday fasters

I'm back onto a proper FD today so will be joining whoever is around - just catching up with all the messages.

So sorry to hear about your news hummus - I hope keeping busy is helping.

upsidedown I only mentioned combining 16:8 and 5:2 as I know a few people who do 16:8 then add a FD. Some people start on 16:8 and lose weight without counting calories or anything, just because the long overnight fast and shorter eating window helps to reduce their appetite but they often lose weight slowly or even just maintain their weight. So in that case adding one or 2 fast days of 500 calories would make them lose faster. So if you already like 16:8 but are losing slowly then it would be a good combination, but you wouldn't lose much faster than by doing 5:2 and eating within your tdee calories on NFDs.

There's no need to add 16:8 to 5:2 to lose weight faster and it might be counterproductive if you feel restricted eating for only 8 hours during the day and don't really like the16:8, so you would be more likely to give up. Bigchoc recommends a 12:12 with 3 or 4 meals no snacking on NFDs and you will still get those short fasts between meals which help regulate your appetite. Some people do like 16:8 because they are not bothered about breakfast but like a big lunch and dinner so it suits them. So do which of those you think will be easier for you until you get used to the fasting days and find them easier and your NFDs are going well too. Then if you are still wanting to lose weight faster you could think about cutting back a bit more, but you might not need to anyway if you are sticking to the regular 5:2 really well.

Checking in for s FD today too. Making asparagus and boiled eggs for lunch then salmon bowl for dinner later. Feeling motivated today

@upsidedownrightnow I wasn’t really counting calories but just trying to eat sensibly. I think I find total fasting easier as I only have dinner and I don’t think about food for the whole day.

@Waspie Thanks

I’m doing another fast day today and planned a bowl of veg chilli for dinner. I’m not eating anything else.

I know everyone says this but I want to see quick results. I’ve put on weight during lockdown and have just tipped into the obese bmi range. I feel absolutely horrified.
I’m not very tall so just need to lose a few lbs to get back down then 2 stones to get to a healthy weight.

upsidedown re broccoli soup, not really a recipe. Yes, I use the big woody stems & yellow bits, leaves. Cover with water, teaspoon of vegetable bouillon powder, boil for 20 min & then liquidise with a hand blender. Keeps a couple of days in fridge.
NSV today - since lockdown I have been walking 3.5 mi pretty much every morning, today I skipped due to rain but by 2 pm, I was so antsy I had to get out for my walk. A habit established. It has taken 30+ days.

Well done on your FD yesterday, Emcla, Stripey, Waspie
and your miniFD, Chic

Welcome, Drifter 🙂
and well done on nailing your 1st FD.

I suggest you do 5:2 and keep to 2 FDs, rather than trying to rush
In this crisis, it is best not to force too much of a weekly calorie deficit, because you need plenty of nutrients to support your immune system

If you really want to boost loss, it's better to cut out / down junky treats and alcohol, rather than adding another FD

Well done on your 1st FD too, Giant
On an FD, having a healthy minimeal doesn't count as a snack

• how you divide your small amount of FD calories over the day doesn't really matter, so long as there is no alcohol or junk

The No Snacks rule is important to work on for NFDs thoûgh

Stripey Salmon is pretty filling and very healthy - oily fish support the immune system & boost Vit D, very handy atm
That's good the 2 meals system works for you - it suits most folk

Upside Sounds like 5:2 would work better for you than just 16:8
Good luck

You sound very positive and up for it today, badger 👍

How is your FD going today, moonlight, badger, Kitty ?
About time now to close the kitchen and clean your teeth, to avoid temptation

Congratulations on your exercise habit NSV, moan
Now the exercise bug has bitten you and you get antsy in your pantsy without it !

Kitchen is closed. Reckon I finished on 900-1000, slight sabotage around 6pm with some mouthfuls of my kids pasta leftovers but that was my only weak point so not going to be too sad.
NFD tomorrow then FD Thurs

Successful FD finished with a jacket and tuna salad. Brushed my teeth to avoid all temptation. Tomorrow is a NFD which has all been planned so hopefully that will help me stick to it! With this being week 2 I’m hoping I’ve got back into it and stopped the carb cravings. 🤞🏻 though!

Ended the day on 588 and not feeling too hungry at all which is good. My appetite is definitely responding to fasting well, no longer need to stuff myself full.

How have the rest of you Tuesday fasters done?

Well done, badger, kitty, moonlight

That's an appetite NSV, Moonlight
Good luck with zapping the carb cravings, Kitty

You deserve better than DC leftovers, Badger
Another 5:2 mantra:

"There is a rubbish bin in the kitchen, which shouldn‘t be you"

@BigChocFrenzy thanks for the wise words I do understand that we need our nutrients, but excess weight is serious factor too for complications so I’m really keen to get my weight down.

Another FD completed. I had a big bowl of bean chilli so I feel quite nourished.

Sorry I fell off the thread a bit there! just keeping on keeping on here. NFD here today so just trying to keep it healthy and sensible. Homemade cauli soup for lunch and lasagne for tea.
Good luck any fasters today.

@bigchoc that's a good one - I'll try to remember that when eating scraps

Keep on keeping on, BestBees

I'm fasting today
Anyone else ?

I do 1-2 weekly 800 FDs for maintenance
I've had coffee and a small protein porridge pot with chia seeds & blueberries
then nothing until tea about 4 pm

I'm going to do 40 mins or so of Tabata routines, then a Rhine walk for about 2 hours
Glorious sun here for the last month