5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Hope you are all enjoying a lovely sunny day. I hopped on the scales this morning and have lost that pesky 0.5kg that I put on last week. It does mean that I've essentially stayed the same for about three weeks but there we go.

NFD for me. I focussed on no snacking & had a modest breakfast (black coffee, 1/2 scone, 1oz cheese & some rather odd bacon from Lidl) Then did not eat again for 7+ hrs. I must say I was famished at this point. Kept myself busy with gardening, reading paper ( I do this once a week) one bout of shopping & baking a very complicated cake. My fitness tracker says 2037 cals, whatever that means. I walked 4.9 mi, which I think IS accurate. Practicing not eating.

Welcome, Anpo 🙂
and good luck
You've come to a friendly place

Well done, Moonlight
sts is a reasonable aim for lockdown, with some loss when you can manage it

Oh, you don't want to be hungry on NFDs, Moan
You probably need a lot more veg and beans with your meals
e.g. for breakfast, I suggest including some veg or berries, to fill you up more for the calories

If you are having 2 weekly FDs, then these would supply the calories deficit
So you can eat up to your TDEE

If you are doing daily 16:8 instead of 5:2, you might feel better on 3 moderate sized meals rather than 2,
On 5:2, some people even prefer 4 for NFDs - whatever works for you

If you prefer 2 meals, then try just coffee for breakfast and then have lunch & supper

Meridas Protein shakes are one way of adding extra protein - if you aren't getting enough
However, drinks are usually less filling than food - and it's not really forming "normal" eating habits,
so I would suggest tweaking your food

Can you eat eggs ?
They are an excellent source of protein

If you are not a vegetarian, but just don't like meat, then of course fish is a very healthy protein,
especially oily fish like salmon, mackerel (I had mackerel for lunch, yum !)

Alternatively, there are delicious protein porridges which have as much protein as a shake,
but are much more filling, with added whey protein, e.g. for 228 cals and 20g protein:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oomf-Porridge-Artificial-Ingredients-Chocolate/dp/B00O4E26B4/ref=sr11_2?dchild=1&keywords=protein+porridge+pots&qid=1587855777&s=sports&sr=1-2

You could add a tbsp of chia seeds or flaked almonds to this, or to another meal

Just wondering of any of you use bulgar wheat as a substitute for rice? Os it much lower in calories?

Or anything else you might use?

I used bare naked rice but irs expensive its around £2 per pack which is enough for 2 servings, if i buy normal rice it would be around the same price but last for many servings

I don't think bulgar wheat is much lower calories than rice. Have you tried the cauliflower rice? It's quite cheap if you make it yourself in the processor.

I made it once years ago and didn't like it.

How do you make yours?

Just whizz it in the processor then nuke it for around 3 mins, or depending on amount longer until soft.

I must confess I use the frozen ready-made cauli rice (lazy )
which is v nice dry-fried for a few minutes, or in a stirfry with veg and a protein

I also much prefer Bulghur wheat or quinoa to rice,
as they have more protein & nutrients and are more filling for longer
However, the calories are simiilar to rice

Do any of you feel like Cauliflower rice tastes anything like actual rice?

Also any other tips for low calorie things to replace carbs?

I had frozen roasted parsnips today which i thought would be a good replacement for roast potatoes! For 3 parsnips it was 253 calories it feels like a waste 😓

I don't think the cauli rice tastes like real rice but it's ok as a way to bulk up something tasty like a curry. My mum uses the frozen cauliflower rice and says it's very good and convenient (only if you like cauliflower rice of course).
At the moment I am still having normal carbs on NFD but I might have the cauli rice or courgetti on a FD.

FD tomorrow- omelette I guess for lunch and will have a think about evening meal.

I love cauliflower rice with thai curry. Microwave and done.

Morning everyone!
I dont love cauli rice, but I have a cauli in the fridge and one arriving on Wednesday so I need to eat it!

So my FD menu is:
Lunch: quinoa and some kind of pulse salad
Dinner: chilli and cauli rice.

I am starting today 1lb up from my weigh in post second fast day last week which is good. Hopi g for a 2lb loss this week, then I expect it will slow.

BCF thanks for the pointers on setting targets. 9.10 would give me a BMI of 24 so will aim for that. Then I will do some measurements. However I know that 9.10 can be pretty maintainable for me, and so that might be just perfect! 8lb to go!

Who else is fasting today?

Hi everyone, hoping it’s ok for me to join you. Doing my first FD today and already hungry haha. Have lots to lose, have lost 10lbs so far but I’ve been finding things hard the last few days. Looking for a way to help me control my portions and snacking and think 5:2 will really help me. I’ve just put DS down for his nap so will have a coffee and see how I get on

FD for me I am planning a carrot soup for lunch and I have a piece of salmon for dinner, inspired by this thread I thought I might do it with some cauli rice and a little tzatziki.

Still drinking way too much coffee, I always drink a lot and also find helps me with hunger on FD, but it does add calories from the milk plus it's not very healthy. I have started switching to decaf coffee in the evening. I don't really like any of the milk substitutes like almond milk so I think it's best to slowly reduce the cups I drink. I've never been able to find a herbal tea I like without sugar either. I don't mind redbush but that I still like with milk.

So after a first week of ups and downs and struggles the scales are showing a 5lbs loss! Pretty impressed considering I did cave the odd time. Although I did do 4:3 for the week.
Week 2 this week is all planned so I’m aiming to do 3 fast days and eat normally on the other days without snacking.
I’m doing some joe wicks and other youtube work outs as well as getting out on my bike. Fingers crossed for another week of losses. I honestly think I’ve started at the best time with what’s going on. I cant be tempted by a McDonald’s, or going to the pub because it’s not an option. 😂
I know a few people mentioned low carb to help stop snacking, I’ve never low carbed before has anyone got any suggestions of low carb foods? I’ll look to plan more low carb meals into my plan.

Morning @Bestbees @StripeyLurcher @theburiedgiant I'm joining you all on a fast day today. Ham sandwich lunch and fish and broccoli for tea. Done an online exercise class this morning too so am feeling strong!

Welcome, BuriedGiant 🙂
and good luck on your 1st FD

All that is "banned" on FDs are alcohol and junk
Protein and lots of veg help you feel fuller

Our best tip is No Snacking between meals EVER, not at WEs, not on holiday

Good luck on your FD today too, BestBees, Chic, Stripey, harriet

Congratulations on your SV, Kitty
Good start

Low carb to stop sweet cravings means basically protein and masses of different veg
e.g. prawn / chicken / beef stir or with salad

Upside, Stripey Increasing portions of different veg helps fill you up

Drink plenty of water, because of the extra fibre,
but Mosely recommends avoiding all diet fizz, as studies indicate it may increase longterm weight gain
Diet fizz can often increase overall hunger and / or headaches

Fizzy water - unflavoured - optionally with ice & a slice of veg or fruit - is good though and can help you feel fuller
Also, hot beef Bovril is only 10 cals per cup, delic with a ½ teasp ketchup or puree

Cauli rice (slightly !) imo resembles normal rice when mixed with srongly flavoured foods, e.g. in a spicy stir fry or soup

Try to reduce to the recommended portion size for carbs, which (for NFDs) should be no more than 100g cooked weight of potato / rice / pasta / bread (1-2 slices) total per meal

Also, use "resistant starch" trick to reduce the insulin impact,
i.e. cook potato / rice / pasta and let it cool, then either eat cold or reheat

For bread, swap to 100% wholegrain / wholewheat / rye which also reduces the insulin spike

Morning All. I will join you for a fast day today

I took the dog for a 5Km walk early on and I'm busy at work so that should keep me occupied until tea time.

Well done on your SV Kitty - that's a great start!

Good luck Monday fasters

Workout done this morning but now starving as a result. Cardio always does this to me!

Going to hold out til 1pm, have my lunch then hopefully, potentially nap - then I foresee bed by 8pm!

Hi all,

First fast day in months and not going too bad yet! I never found them too bad, my problem was always getting the motivation to start in the first place. Hopefully will keep it up this time.

Had a ham salad for lunch and following a tip on here and have a ready meal in the freezer for dinner. I would have never thought of that but I think it will make things much easier for me for the initial few weeks and will keep me on the straight and narrow until I start to see results and the motivation/willpower kicks in properly.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

Hi everyone im not feeling very motivated today ive been doing 16:8 and tbh im finding that trying to stick to around 1400 /1500 calories everyday is hard, it means that there are not any days that i can actually have any chocolate or wine and its hard.

Im wondering if i might be better to switch to 5:2 instead.

Im feeling down as i weighed myself today (during the middle of the day) and i was 10.1 and i started at 10.0.3 (first thing in the morning before drinking water and after going to the toilet).

So im hoping i might possibly be 9.13 but still im thinking when can i eat something i actully want to eat

upsidedown why not try a FD and see if it is doable for you? You can combine the two and do 16:8 on NFD but with a higher calorie allowance of your TDEE.

Hi upside. Sorry you are feeling demotivated. I would definitely try a fast day. It's much easy that sticking to 1400 every day.

I have found today hard (probably as I drank too much last night). As a result I snuck in a banana and half a piece of kids toast. But kitchen now closed and plan an early night. Reminded myself of BCF wise words about not slipping and then just giving up, but rather that I am still in a good deficit today.

How have others FD gone?

Hi all,

I fell off the last thread. Here I am . It’s been a funny old time: I’d stopped fasting on the last thread due to being pregnant, but that pregnancy sadly hasn’t progressed (I found out last week). But I have also found myself running the local covid response team, so my weight is probably the lowest it’s been in my adult life (despite being surrounded by food all day) - 63kg or so (I’m 1.75m tall). I’m about 2kg below goal. I’m simply too busy to do much, including eat. Can be great and not so great.

So I’m back, but I’m not quite sure how much fasting I’ll be able to get in, and I probably will be less responsive on here than I’d like. I’d like to really concentrate on eating better for the moment, because that has also fallen by the wayside.

Anyway - hello everyone, and good to be back!

Doing my third FD and I must say it’s going better than last FD, coping better, less hungry. Having my usual broccoli soup, and dinner will be a lemon sole & veg soup - I found lemon grass! - lemon sole quite low cal, 160 for 190g.
Good luck all FDers.