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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
emcla · 03/06/2020 15:45

Yes bigchoc. She also makes that point. It’s an interesting read.

NathanNathan · 03/06/2020 15:59

Thanks Upside and emcla!

BigChoc has it on the sorts of things in BSD800, enough fat and protein makes it possible for the 8 weeks.

I am determined to keep going, but this has been my first week onto 5:2 and slightly more freedom and I've struggled! Great advice from BigChoc as always, trying a fast day today after I failed on Monday, so far so good.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2020 16:32

Congratulations on your SV, SInga
Now onwards to goal !

Well done on your FD, Harriet
You obviuosly needed that long sleep.

and good luck on your FD today, Nathan

Scorching sun today nearly 30C & humid, so I shortened my walk a lot
but now I'm off to the gym for 2hrs spin & advanced lifting classes .... and the air con there hasn't been installed yet, aaargh

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 03/06/2020 19:10

11 hours Harriet? Shock

It’s such a boost when the bloat banishes, Singasonga? I’m loving your positivity.

It’s been a decent NFD here. I’ve had 2 meals and came in within TDEE. My totm is approaching though and I definitely feel hungrier and it’s harder to feel satisfied.

Struggling a bit with the weather here. It’s been raining solidly for the past two days, so the kids have been stuck inside. They were bickering in the background when I had an online meeting today, despite being told off 3 times! The forecast is rain for most of the next fortnight, so it’s going to be tough keeping them quiet.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2020 19:43

That's a sensible day, Maz
I recommend you don't weigh until after totm, to avoid being discouraged by the water retention blip

OP posts:
spatchcock · 04/06/2020 00:46

Hi everyone,

@NathanNathan very impressed with your seven week of 800 cals, well done. I'm also a spiralling binger, and I have really struggled with that on NFDs. I am trying to reframe "treats" in my mind - greek yogurt with walnuts, instead of chocolate/cake. It is a constant battle though.

Having said that, yesterday was a minor victory for me - I ate about 1450 cals (between lunch and dinner) and didn't feel tempted to top that up in the evening. I had a chocolate bar in my bag but for once managed to listen to my body and not eat it out of habit. This is almost unheard of! My family joke about having to hide the chocolate because I have no willpower.

Scales have not reflected my good work and have remained stable this week, but hoping for a loss for tomorrow's weigh in.

I'm fasting today, just about to tuck into some pumpkin with a side of sauerkraut for lunch.

Good luck to any Thursday fasters!

NathanNathan · 04/06/2020 07:43

Thanks @spatchcock and while I'm sad that we all have to contend with these eating troubles it's really useful to hear from other people and how they manage it.

The 7 weeks really helped me escape the binging because it was so structured, and now I can see I need to be a bit phased in my return to carbs, starting with BigChocs recommendations!

emcla · 04/06/2020 08:26

Fast day for me. Hoping to get back on track after eating a load of cheese and oatcakes after dinner last night.

moonlight1705 · 04/06/2020 08:54

I'm joining you today emcla on a FD.

Just reading about your experience with binges and it is so true. I can be so good with food for ages and then suddenly my brain wants something so badly and will not stop. It is getting slowly better through doing 5:2 but still hard.

emcla · 04/06/2020 10:21

Anyone else fasting today?? If so , good luck 😉

MazDazzle · 04/06/2020 10:31

I’m fasting today emcla and moonlight. Good luck to us all.

It’s my DD’s bday tomorrow. There’ll be cake and I don’t want to miss out on that, so I need to get a FD under my belt today. I also need to make the cake today though! Provided I’m able to get all of the ingredients... I also have to do a food shop.

Beautiful3 · 04/06/2020 10:34

Hi everyone, I'm fasting today! I'm enjoying this plan. My stomach has definitely become slimmer, which is motivating me! Good luck fellow fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2020 11:01

Good luck, emcla, moonlight, maz, beaut

and well done on your stomach NSV, beaut
That's bodyfat you've burned off

Definitely the 5:2 mantra today, Maz:
" I can have it tomorrow"
Enjoy miniMaz's bday then with your delic cake.

Binges are almost always of carbs, or the lethal mix of carbs, salt & fat (pizza, crisps) that doesn't occur in nature.

What has worked to break this trigger for some is to add low carb - but it seems to need about 3 months to work, before carbs can be reintroduced again in stages.

Even if you don't go low carb, it helps just to cut out all carby junk for a fixed period:
for a binger, rationing is often much harder than completely cutting out all added sugar food - cake, biscuits, choc etc.

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 04/06/2020 12:52

Love this thread and thanks to all those posting

I've been back on it since Monday and it's my second FD today. I've already got back down to my pre going off track weight so that's very motivating.

Feeling the hunger pangs but I do well to hold off until 4ish and then have my 500 cals then.

Good luck to all today!

harriethoyle · 04/06/2020 13:58

Hi gang - forgot to check in for my FD this morning!

Have had a snap pot of beans for lunch and a slow cooked chilli for tea tonight, over courgetti rather than rice. So far so good although it is only 2pm...!

Hope the day is flying by for my fellow fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2020 15:56

Good luck, inthethick
and well done on your SV to put you back on track
Now you are on your way to goal

Good luck too, Harriet

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 04/06/2020 17:06

I’ve fed the kids. Planning on making a tomato and lentil stew with a small chunk of chorizo for flavour. Low in calories and hearty, so should fill me up. I find FD’s easy. I can do b2b without much effort. It’s staying in control on the NFDs that’s always been my trouble.

NathanNathan · 04/06/2020 17:09

Why calorie limit do you work to on back to back days @MazDazzle?

Beautiful3 · 04/06/2020 17:19

Well done Thursday fasters! My kitchens closed now at 565! Can I ask those who measure, how long until you saw a loss in inches?

harriethoyle · 04/06/2020 19:02

Kitchen is closed on 541. Happy with that! Now to get through the evening ahead... Grin

inthethickofit19 · 04/06/2020 20:19

Thanks BCF the encouragement is v motivating!

emcla · 04/06/2020 21:16

Well done Harriet, beau, maz. I managed a mini fd in the end. I’ve had a tough week with some bad news so have to settle for that.

inthethickofit19 · 04/06/2020 21:18

Sorry to hear that @emcla x

BigChocFrenzy · 04/06/2020 21:27

Well done Harriet, beaut, maz, emcla

I'm sorry to hear of your bad news emcla 💐
You did really well to manage a miniFD
Do take care of yourself, with plenty of TLC and sleep

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 04/06/2020 21:35

Ended on 585 so feeling quite happy.

Well done everyone else, in particular emcla, it must be so hard when you've had a tough week.