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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
emcla · 28/05/2020 07:54

Downcherry you sound so positive. Go for it ! I find if I have a small sweet item it triggers me wanting more and more so I have replaced that with unsweetened almond milk or high protein natural yogurt with seeds , cinnamon and sometimes a banana or apple thrown in. The almond milk is low calorie. Good luck.

MazDazzle · 28/05/2020 08:01

You’ll feel so much better after fasting Downcherry.

Well done on your scale victory spatch!

I’m working from home today. I’d really like it if I could crack on and the work done while the kids do their school work, then we could have the rest of the day to ourselves. It never works like that though. It was a glorious day yesterday but between housework, schoolwork and my work, we spent the whole of it stuck inside!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/05/2020 08:16

Good luck today, cherry
3 days is not important and you did well to get back on track today

When you feel yourself slipping into snacking or late eating on NFDs, then mfp each thing you intend to eat or drink - before you have it
Sometimes seeing that it would total 500,1000, 1500 can stop a binge in its tracks

Another good tactic is to clean your teeth - that fresh taste often makes nibbling less tempting

Well done on your SV, Spatchcock
and good luck today

OP posts:
spatchcock · 28/05/2020 08:22

I'm done for the day, with about 550 cals.

Good luck for your fast today, @downcherrytreelane. You will feel better afterwards. Agree that MFP'ing everything before it goes in your mouth can be a big deterrent.

Hope everyone has a good Thursday!

moonlight1705 · 28/05/2020 08:47

So it is my second go at a FD although yesterday proved to be a flop. I'm making a salmon and asparagus one pot for lunch and left over curry for dinner so should be within my b2b daily limit.

harriethoyle · 28/05/2020 08:53

NSV this week - an inch off my waist! That will motivate me to stick to the wine ban...

emcla · 28/05/2020 09:18

I had a weight in and have maintained at 9 st. Overall happy with that. Just have to break the 9 st barrier. It’s my set weight so always struggled to go below. Meanwhile a nfd here with healthy eating.

Good luck today to all Thursday fasters.

DietChic · 28/05/2020 09:50

FD today - same strategy as always - to leave food as long as I possibly can, keep to mainly protein and green veg and drink the water!

homeschoolhell · 28/05/2020 10:25

fab exercise NSV maz Grin

cherry as others have said don't dwell on it, put it behind you and carry on - good luck!

excellent SV spatch Smile

it sounds like it won't be long though emcla I remember from loosing weight previously that I had about 3 sticking points, but with perseverance and I got past them.

good luck today moon your menu sounds delish

wow harriet fantastic loss around your waist!

NFD today, not eaten anything yet and was in the park at 7.50am to do my C25K before it got too hot Halo got chicken skewers with roasted veg couscous and some salad for dinner, no clue yet re: lunch

Good luck to all the thursday fasting gang Smile

Beautiful3 · 28/05/2020 11:37

@MazDazzle that fruit tea sounds lovely! I do like camomile tea, must get them out for the mornings!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/05/2020 12:59

Congratulations on your waist NSV, Harriet
That's bodyfat you've burned off with fasting and good NFD habits

That's good you are so focused, emcla
A set point within healthy BMI is usually tough to break even on IF, but patience and focus will nail it.

Well done on your FD, Spatchcock
I'm nosy intrigued: is your time ahead or behind us ?

Good luck with your FDs, Moonlight, chic
That's a tasty menu, moonlight
and chic you've found a good FD system that works well for you

That's good you enjoy herbal tea, beaut
A low / no cal hot drink is useful when you feel peckish and it is a healthy habit to build.

That's an impressive start to the day, homeschool
When you exercise early, you're more likely to keep it up
Also once it's done, you can then enjoy the sense of accomplishment all day

OP posts:
Singasonga · 28/05/2020 17:03

Second fasting day today. Have been on water, coffee and milk all day, barring a bit of sugar in an iced coffee one of my kids brought to me this afternoon. Still on track for 477 tonight.

I think I'll order some of that apple-mint Suki tea. I'd like something like that to sip in the evenings.

Beautiful3 · 28/05/2020 17:27

Ahh forgot today was supposed to be my second fasting day! (Or didn't realise it was Thursday!) Will fast tomorrow instead.

DietChic · 28/05/2020 18:07

Done! And thank goodness for that!

495 calories and 2 litres of water down. Honestly I don’t know how people manage 3 or 4 litres. I fill the bottle every morning and chug steadily through the day and it feels like a lot! I also try to stop before 7pm so I’m not up in the night. But I do think it’s the thing that forced me off the plateau for sure.

Winecheesesleep · 28/05/2020 18:39

Finished for the day on 510 calories. I decided to try skipping lunch and having a bigger dinner and have found it better so will try that again on the next FD. I had a pretty busy day though so might not work so well without distractions!

moonlight1705 · 28/05/2020 19:10

Going to finish the first of my b2b on 752 so a tad more but have planned tomorrow to be around 600 calories so will even out nicely.

Well done wine dietchic and singasonga

BigChocFrenzy · 28/05/2020 20:51

Well done moonlight, wine, chic, singa

and good job with the water, chic
I drink a lot during training - I need it, to cool me down !
You could tart it up with ice & a slice of fruit, and / or sparkling UNflavoured water
Icy cold is best

It's too easy to lose track of the days on lockdown, Beaut
but a Friday FD is useful, to help avoid a long indulgent weekend

OP posts:
DietChic · 28/05/2020 21:08

Thanks BCF - good suggestions to get the water down me!

Well done fellow Thursday Fasters! It always feels good to get day 2 out of the way. Though I agree Friday is helpful to keep the weekend in check.

MazDazzle · 28/05/2020 21:23

Well done to all of the fasters! A great start to the weekend.

OohMrDarcy · 29/05/2020 09:55

Morning all

Friday FD here and the kids are with their dad so I'm going to have a lovely prawn stir fry later.

Didn't have the best day meals wise yesterday - had to travel to a site for work (first time since all this fun) and ended up stuck there hours longer than I expected so ended up just getting a chippy when I got home at 7.30pm - hopefully not done too much damage on what has been a good week so far, but not ideal.

DietChic · 29/05/2020 10:32

Good luck today MrD and any other Friday fasters.

I don’t think a one off trip to the chippy is too bad - it would be if you were low carbing, or on 1200 calories a day but the fast will fix it, or mitigate any fattening that could occur!

Beautiful3 · 29/05/2020 11:23

Well done on the inch loss @harriethoyle! Today's my fast day and it's been tempting. Its my husbands day off, so they asked for waffles. Going to prepare beef burgers for their lunch too. Even the dogs (chicken breast) meals look tempting! 😂 My herbal teas are keeping me going! Looking forward to our dinner later.🤤 Good luck to everyone fasting today!

Singasonga · 29/05/2020 11:30

Happy Friday everyone! Did my C25k this morning with my daughter and came in to the relative luxury of a non-FD piece of toast to go with my coffee.

This particular C25k is a return to running for me - I had quite a good routine going a couple of years ago, but after a major surgery never really got back into it. I could probably get back into it faster than I am, but I am enjoying taking my daughter out (who regards running as the work of the devil) and easing her into it bit-by-bit. Two birds, etc.

Currently not working today and planning nice things to cook outdoors this weekend. Wondering about researching mocktails so I can have a "treat drink."

BigChocFrenzy · 29/05/2020 11:41

Good luck on your FDs, MrD, Beaut

and enjoy your weekend, Maz, Chic, Singa if you've nailed yours already

MrD You should be able to fit in a weekly chippy supper on an NFD and still stay on track
Fish, chips, mushy peas, ketchup & vinegar - it's reasonable as an occasional treat

Beaut You can join in the burgers if you add a mixed salad or other veg, e.g. onions, mushrooms & tomato

Well done on your C25k, Singa
Under "healthy 5:2 habits" you can still have one glass of proper wine on NFDs

I drink v v little anyway, but I have discovered some lovely alcohol-free fizzy wines, which are only about 50 cals for 200 ml
Seem to be v diluted grape juice & fizzy water, processed to give a "winy" taste, so it's healthy in sensible amounts

OP posts:
Singasonga · 29/05/2020 12:33

Under "healthy 5:2 habits" you can still have one glass of proper wine on NFDs

This is an extremely welcome thing to read, thanks BigChoc. I am very much the sort of person who will opt for a glass of wine over a pudding - which is also an expression of a sweet tooth, I guess (given that alcohol is basically sugar, nutritionally).

Good shout as well on the non & low-alch fizzy wines. I've a grocery delivery due, so I might pop a couple of those into it.

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