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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Winecheesesleep · 27/05/2020 09:31

Wise words BigChocFrenzy, I weighed again this morning and was down 2.5 pounds overnight, next time I will just skip TOTM week weigh-in completely as it has more of an effect than I thought.

Did my first FD of the week yesterday and it was fine so hopefully I'll have a better week and get a SV next week. I'm really happy with this WOE so I really hope it works for me.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/05/2020 09:57

Excellent news on your SV, Wine
and well done on your FD

Good luck today, Moonlight
That's very useful you have identified portion control as the next issue to be tackled
Retraining habits usually takes a month for the new habits to be settled in, but stay patient and you can nail that

Upside It sounds like you have had an indulgent week or so, which in itself can cause bloating,
especially if you've had a lot of carbs

Try not to worry; rapid gain like that is probably mostly undigested fooda and retained water due to excess carbs.
So a couple of good FDs should get rid of most / all the gain, provided you also focus on not eating back the deficit on NFDs

Rather than cut things out totally, I suggest keeping to 1-2 slices total bread per day
and keep weight of cooked pasta - not the raw ingredient - to 80g

Cut out sweet treats and alcohol for the week, if you want to cut out anything

It would help you to plan your menu for each NFD in advance, so you don't get tempted by carby / junky food
If you feel you need to retrain on NFDs, you could mfp, but you could also try without and see how it goes.

OP posts:
homeschoolhell · 27/05/2020 10:06

fab SV wine

moon portion control is difficult, I live with a 6ft 4 bloke and a 9 year old DS who both eat like horses, and sometimes I do too :)

upside hope your tummy eases soon

ha ha bigchoc you are right, I can't let DS beat me, although i don't know how I'm supposed to run in the heat we are meant to be getting in the next few days - urgh - go first thing I reckon!

just tea this morning till a lunch of egg salad (I think) no clue yet re: dinner though, probably another salad of sorts! Who else is fasting today??

emcla · 27/05/2020 10:32

I’m aiming for a mini today. I’m finishing work today until next Tuesday. Not sure I will manage a proper fd but might aim for a few mini fd’s. is this cheating ??

OohMrDarcy · 27/05/2020 10:39

Morning all

NFD here today, and kids off to their dads after lunch so planning what I'm having for the rest of the week right now. Next FD is going to be Friday.

Congrats on the SV wine

BigChocFrenzy · 27/05/2020 11:14

Good luck, emcla, homeschool

emcla Sounds fine
3 miniFDs per week seems to give about the same loss for most folk as 2 FDs
Just keep to the same food rules as FDs, i.e. no junk or alcohol on miniFDs

MrD You are very organised as usual.
Forward planning is a big help

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 27/05/2020 12:25

@homeschoolhell me!

B2b fist bump @moonlight1705 Grin

Quite busy with work this morning so just popped an egg on to hardboil and mash on toast. Going to make a vat of chilli and have it on green veg instead of rice tonight. Feeling hungry but strong!

DietChic · 27/05/2020 12:35

NFD here and really looking forward to lunch.

I think I’ll do my second FD of the week tomorrow and get it out of the way!

Good luck to the B2B-ers. I just can’t do that so am always very impressed by it!

Singasonga · 27/05/2020 13:22

Afternoon all. This is my first "normal" day, albeit with careful calorie tracking which is a little out of the norm. I notice that as soon as I track calories I go to the other end of the scale and eat far less, so I end up scrabbling around looking for other healthy things to eat to push up my overall intake. (So when I don't want to know and don't track, I consume waaaaay more than I need...)

Took DD out for a walk this morning (we are C25K-ing). I would like to do some weight based exercises as well, so am looking for recommendations for beginner home-based weights workouts, if any of you are especially pleased with yours.

Today's lunch was a "lean" brioche bun with a fried egg, pile of kimchi and tsp of Japanese mayo, with a few raw broccoli florets on the side. I'd like to have bibimbap for future lunches, but haven't had time between meetings today.

emcla · 27/05/2020 13:43

Thanks bigchoc for your response. I will do that this week. It’s a more realistic goal for me particularly when I am on leave.

Good luck to anyone fasting today.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/05/2020 13:50

"so I end up scrabbling around looking for other healthy things to eat to push up my overall intake"

On NFDs, eat if hungry
When you are satisfied, then stop

There is no need to push up your intake if not hungry:
some days you might not be hungry - you are using more bodyfat for fuel; other days you feel extra hungry, so it evens out

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 27/05/2020 15:58

@Upsidedownrightnow I asked my sister as she has a gluten intolerance. She said the main symptoms were for her vomiting, diarrhoea and fatigue. Her stomach swells up and she looks pregnant after having a small amount but then she is badly affected by this.

If you do decide to get a blood test you need to eat gluten properly for six weeks before.

Beautiful3 · 27/05/2020 17:01

It's now week 2 for me. I'm struggling with the breakfast and lunch on nfds. Today I found it easier to just have a piece of fruit for breakfast and 2 boiled eggs for lunch. This way I can have the same dinner as the family albiet a smaller portion!

harriethoyle · 27/05/2020 20:37

@Beautiful3 if you can bear it, I find going without breakfast and restricting myself to black coffee means that lunch and dinner don't need to be so spartan... might be worth a try!

moonlight1705 · 27/05/2020 21:21

Hmmm well that didn't go to plan. Due to unforseen circumstances I had to have Friday nights dinner instead so am well off plan. I am hoping to swap and do tomorrow and Friday as a FD instead.

homeschoolhell · 27/05/2020 21:32

Fd done on 490 cals, off bed now for an early night.

Second day of C25K tomorrow and it's going to be roasting so heading to the park for 8am, will I manage to run after a fd (I dont have breakfast usually)

beautiful I'm like harriet also, I tend to skip breakfast so that I can have good lunch and dinner, might be worth a try?

moon that's the beauty of 5:2, if something crops up you can be flexible and change your fd 😁 dont forget if you are doing back to back you get more calories too....

BigChocFrenzy · 27/05/2020 21:40

Well done, Homeschool

Beaut Many people have just black coffee for breakfast, to save calories for later

If you want a small breakfast, then I recommend protein instead of fruit - the sugar will spike insulin and make you v hungry before lunch
You could have a boiled egg on its own, or a piece of chicken breast, for the same calories as fruit

However, most folk manage to have 3 normal meals on an NFD
Is your supper particularly huge ?

  • it's best to have a sensible but filling amount at lunch and supper rather than eating most of your calories in the evening on NFDs
(On FDs, 500 cals is small enough to eat when you choose)
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/05/2020 22:44

Well done to all the Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 27/05/2020 22:48

@harriethoyle I gave up coffee and tea over a year and half ago, to banish headaches. It worked, but I miss using it to help me feel full. Definitely prefer having a big meal in the evening. Think you're right though, I could have had a more substantial lunch. Think I'll have a big salad tomo with those eggs! Good luck with your fast day tomorrow @moonlight1705.

Beautiful3 · 27/05/2020 23:00

That's good advice thanks @BigChocFrenzy. My meal was around 600 calories on my nfd, its because I wanted some calories left over for a hot chocolate and popcorn afterwards! I'm missing the sweet stuff.

Beautiful3 · 27/05/2020 23:03

Well done @homeschoolhell. Thanks for the advice, yes will start having a more sensible lunch.

MazDazzle · 28/05/2020 00:31

Good luck with the C25K homeschool hell.

Beautiful3 have you tried herbal or fruit teas? I find they fill me up, especially in the evening. My favourite is apple loves mint by Suki tea.

Well done to everyone who fasted today!

I had an online PT session this morning. NSV: when I was doing sit ups I definitely felt leaner round my middle.

Had water and black coffee through the day and then baked chicken breast with with cream cheese and leeks for my FD dinner. Very much looking forward to my NFD tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/05/2020 00:34

Well done on your FD and situps NSV, Maz
That apple / mint tea sounds delicious

OP posts:
downcherrytreelane · 28/05/2020 01:01

I think it is week 5 or 6 of 5:2 for me. This week so far has not been successful so far. I have eaten quite a lot and had dessert/evening snacks everyday. I was supposed to have a FD on Tuesday but I have delayed it until Thursday and then will also try and have a FD on Saturday.

Today was the worst day though as I ate a lot of junk food at around 10pm whilst watching a film, a habit I thought I had broken.

I think I can attribute this week to one of two things. The first is I had stopped calorie counting on NFD and I think that means I don't hold myself accountable for what I eat. The second reason, and probably the biggest reason, is I have had a stressful week with a health concern I have been feeling anxious about and food is my go-to coping mechanism.

It has only been three days of eating poorly and I already feel sluggish. I am excited to start anew tomorrow with a FD and drinking lots of water.

spatchcock · 28/05/2020 02:13

Hello all, hope everyone's on track.

I'm halfway through my second FD of the week, working from home again so trying to resist the siren call of the fridge.

Just had a 100 cal lunch of baked pumpkin topped with sauerkraut, and already thinking about soup for dinner!

I've lost .5kg in a week, 1lb. I'm good with that.

Good luck to Thursday fasters.

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