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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
homeschoolhell · 26/05/2020 09:52

morning everyone and well done on the losses cherry and diet fantastic Grin

hats off to you all managing FDs over the weekend, although I was feeling very virtuous for fasting Friday I certainly made up for it on sat and sun Shock too much wine leading to munchies - ah well, lesson learned.

NFD today as have zoom meetings and can't be arsed doing them on a FD so planning tomorrow and friday again this week. Good luck tues fasters Smile

MazDazzle · 26/05/2020 10:03

Good luck to everyone fasting today!

harriethoyle · 26/05/2020 10:49

Morning all! @OohMrDarcy I'm joining you on the fast wagon. Today and thurs this week I think. Am also swearing off wine on week days. It's just too tempting to dive into a glass or three when the kids are being testing..! So I've decided to break the habit. Wish me luck Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2020 14:10

Well done on your FD yesterday, Battenburg
No snacking is a good 1st step to concentrate on

Battenburd, Beaut the hormonal changes in peri-menopause tend to slow weight loss and / increase fat storage around your middle.
These changes can start some years before you are aware you are at that stage

Good luck today, Devil, MrD , Harriet

Enjoy your NFD, Maz, emcla

Homeschool, harriet one drink is fine on an NFD, but more than 1 usually exceeds NHS guidelines
and - as you've found - often starts off the munchies

Try to keep your NFD wine to one glass with a meal, not between meals.

I had a 14k step morning walk along the Rhine,nice & sunny but not too hot
then cycled into the next town to takeaway a couple of salads

  • that's one of the few good things to come out of this crisis:
my fav regional award-winning restaurant would never have stooped to takeaway before, but all restaurants have to offer this now to attract cautious customers, even those with a huge outdoor beer garden like this one
OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 26/05/2020 14:36

Well done BigChocFrenzy, you've done so much excerise today! I'm taking the dog for a walk now. You've inspired me to hit my excerise bike after dinner.

Battenburg1978 · 26/05/2020 16:13

BigChoc, that's it exactly! All the weight is in my middle and I've never really gained there before - always been hourglass and now I've got a big apple tummy.

I have not done well with not snacking today and didn't eat a proper lunch and now snacking. Oh well - tomorrow is a new day!

Battenburg1978 · 26/05/2020 16:14

Ps BigChoc I have massive envy of your day, large walk sounds just wonderful

Singasonga · 26/05/2020 16:59

Hello!

Joining you all in the 5:2 gang as my BRCA treatments, perimenopause and lockdown working and team crisis management have collectively played havoc on me lately.

Today is my first fast day. Just had water and coffee with milk so far (33kcal - feeling my way through Day 1 a bit). A couple of chicken fajitas planned for dinner tonight (433 kcal), with lots more water.

Hoping to finish work early enough to go for a walk. The endless conference calls are doing my head in at the moment, and not helping my exercise resolve.

Hello!

Battenburg1978 · 26/05/2020 17:12

Welcome Singa

Good luck for the rest of your starve day, the first is so tough!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2020 18:34

Welcome, singa 🙂
and good luck on your 1st FD
It takes most folk a couple of weeks to adapt to fasting

Tuesdays are usually just walking, because Wednesdays are my really tough exercise day:
standing spin and then an advanced lifting endurance class, which stretches me to my limits

OP posts:
devildeepbluesea · 26/05/2020 18:51

Evening all! Welcome @Singasonga this is a great thread and a great way of eating.

However....I have decided reluctantly to hold off on fasting for this week as it's half term. Also, I live in Wales and we are hoping to be allowed to see family again from Friday. So I'm going to eat well but healthily, and get back on the horse next week.

However I had a glorious 6km run this morning through stunning countryside, followed by Bodypump. I'll be keeping up the exercise, as I have done all through lockdown.

Hope the other Tuesday fasters have had a good day.

OohMrDarcy · 26/05/2020 19:18

Evening all

Kitchen closed on around 450, so room for a cuppa should I wish later. Just getting ready to take the kids to watch the sunset in the new forest this time (I love the forest so any excuse works for me)
Already at 13000 steps for the day after walking to the shop for picnic bits for the kids, then going for a walk with a picnic halfway (for them - I made an omelette before we went)
Welcome singa

DietChic · 26/05/2020 19:31

Well done MrD!

Kitchen also closed here - 512. No ravenous unacceptable hunger today so am getting back used to it. It’s much less of a struggle now - so Singa hopefully you have had an easy FD but if not, I can swear it gets easier. I am a hungry person and it’s now completely manageable without too much moaning from me.

Singasonga · 26/05/2020 19:39

Thanks, all. I'm very impressed by all your exercise - I know I should look for inspiration to go some weight training.

Just had my chicken fajitas. Now nursing a pint of water. Roll on bedtime. 👀

homeschoolhell · 26/05/2020 19:56

Welcome singa and well done, can you have a nice bath, read a book and have an early night?

Good work mrd and diet and all the others fasting today. Lots of exercise being done too 😁

I am very unfit and hate exercising but today as a family we started couch to 5k 😲 I didn't die so will see what Thursday brings! Wish me luck.

Had a good nfd today, no snacks, Fd tomorrow.

harriethoyle · 26/05/2020 20:18

Well done @OohMrDarcy and @DietChic. I am on 470 so we've decided to b2b so I can have a 170 cal snack tonight and then the same tomorrow...!

Just back from a glorious walk along the coastal path, and did abs PT this morning. Have measured my waist as no scales here so I am aiming for a gentle reduction in the inches over the next few weeks until I am home full time with my scales! (Locked down at my DPs hence not having all my own things...) Wine ban should help with that Wink

harriethoyle · 26/05/2020 20:19

oh and well done on your first FD of many @Singasonga!

Winecheesesleep · 26/05/2020 20:26

I put on 2 pounds this week so I'm a bit disappointed as I felt I'd stuck to the rules (without calorie counting) on my NFDs, and definitely stuck to the rules on the FDs.

It is my TOTM though so I'm hoping it's down to that. I'm feeling flabby and bleurgh today though so not sure it is just TOTM-related.

Hope you're all doing better than me!

Beautiful3 · 26/05/2020 20:55

Welcome @Singasonga!

inthethickofit19 · 26/05/2020 21:08

I've well and truly fallen off the wagon in recent weeks and am up a couple of lbs. I just can't seem to 'keep going'. The lockdown, a 3 and 1 year old plus health issues.

I was suffering from headaches and so on BCF's advice I've got some marmite in. However I'm not in the midst of a flare up (fibromyalgia) and probably need to wait a few days to settle down a bit before attempting a FD. It's also day 26 of my cycle so TOTM due soon.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2020 23:52

Well done on a good 1st FD, Singa
and well done too, MrD, Chic

Wine I recommend not weighing during totm
Most women retain at least a couple of lb water, so it can be misleading and discouraging.

The 1st FD after totm ends usually releases all the water, so you can weigh in the morning after that

inthethick I suggest you have an initial week or so of good 5:2 habits, without FDs until you feel well again.
So especially no snacking between meals, keep NHS daily & weekly limits, drink plenty of water

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2020 23:56

That's a very good exercise day, devil

Good for you, homeschool starting c25k
You can't let the family beat you now !Grin

Well done on your FD1, Harriet and good luck for tomorrow

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 27/05/2020 07:05

@inthethickofit19 I'm sorry you're not feeling well. I wouldnt fast while you feel this way. Maybe wait until after your period like BCF said. But eat lots of fruit and vegetables and you cant go wrong, e.g. half the plate of veg/salad will help.

moonlight1705 · 27/05/2020 08:50

Morning all, I'm going to be doing a b2b today and tomorrow.

I have tried to fill in MFP carefully over the non FDs as well this week to see if there is a pattern of eating. I am coming to the conclusion it is portion sizes that are my issue, lovely healthy food but I eat the same amount as DH and still don't feel full sometimes.

Just catching up with all the messages but hope you are all doing well.

Upsidedownrightnow · 27/05/2020 09:01

Morning all, well. My birthday celebrations have meant I havnt fasted for a week and now I am 10.1.6 so I have definitely put on a few pounds Sad

Also I was wondering if any of you might have some advice for me. I noticed last night my belly was making lots of noises and was bloated and when I thought about it I have had alot of wind recently.

I've been eating more bread since lockdown and I'm thinking I may be wheat or gluten Intoletant.

I've been looking up symptoms and some of them include sneezing (I sneeze constantly) astma which I have.

Just wondering if any of you are wheat or gluten Intolerant and if you wouldnt mind sharing your symptoms etc.

Anyway I'm thinking the best idea would be to cut out bread right away and possibly pasta and see how i go.

My belly has been very bloated recently but I thought it was due to weight gain but now I'm pretty sure it's not.