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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
DietChic · 24/05/2020 22:14

FD all done - 560 which is a bit over but not too bad. I am looking forward (godammit) to both the scale and the NFD tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/05/2020 23:47

Well done, Chic

OP posts:
spatchcock · 25/05/2020 02:23

@downcherrytreelane well done on the loss - that's brilliant!

First FD for me this week. Just had lunch (a bowl of roast pumpkin topped with sauerkraut) and will have some crustless quiche for dinner.

Pondering BCF's point about three weekly fast days leading to overeating - this made a lot of sense to me with my bingeing tendencies so I'll do two FDs this week and be meticulous about calorie counting on NFDs.

DietChic · 25/05/2020 09:08

Thanks BCF - happy to report my first loss for what feels like forever: 2lbs!

I think FDs this week will be Tuesday and then either Thursday or Friday.

Back to the water drinking! I really think it may have had something to do with my finally moving past my immense plateau.

Iamblossom · 25/05/2020 09:47

Morning all.

So a bit nonplussed here.

Am a pound up on last week after an average of 1200 cals a day, lots of exercise and loads of water.

Clothese seem fine, not that i am wearing a big variety at the moment.

Baffling.

Iamblossom · 25/05/2020 09:50

I am usually 8 9 or 8 10 so not a huge gain, just annoying.

MazDazzle · 25/05/2020 10:39

FD for me today. Who else is in?

Woke up starving, which is unusual for me. 2 black coffees and a couple of glasses of water have chased away the hunger pangs though.

Didn’t have any alcohol this weekend for the first time since lockdown! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/05/2020 10:57

Congratulations on your SV, Chic
You did so well to stay focused during your plateau

Drinking lots of water can make a significant difference for some folk
Start each morning with a glass and keep water with you all day

Good luck on your FD, Spatchcock, Maz and the rest of the Monday fasting troup

Well done on the no-WE-booze NSV, Maz
That can be a good boost

Blossom Your weight can vary naturally a couple of lb over the week, especially if you have temporary water retention from increased exercise
Stay focused this week and scales will probably progress in the desired direction

btw, if you were mfping absolutely everything over the week to be certain of intake, you might have been slightly inconsistent in either the previous or current weighing:

How to Weigh

For consistency, I recommend recording weight in the morning after FD2, every 1, 2, 4 or 6 weeks (your choice)

. First thing in the morning before drinking or eating anything, but after loo
. Weigh yourself naked
. Use the same scales in the same place on a hard, level surface - not carpet
. Switch on the scales and count slowly to 3, so they have time to calibrate, then step on - don't jump
. Keep still and don't lean to the side or back / front

OP posts:
DietChic · 25/05/2020 12:42

Thanks BCF - I took measurements last week and looked at my old ones and I lost an inch off waist and hips during my 6 weeks of scale stubbornness so that was reassuring.

Iamblossom- when I get back into an exercise regime, I retain water for the first week or two - especially if I have DOMS as well. I don’t know if that could be it?

Iamblossom · 25/05/2020 14:18

Thanks all.

Always MFP and always exercise so no real changes to my normal reality, which is why i am so confused.

A FD ALWAYS chased off 1 or 2 so it's strange it's not currently working but will persevere

Beautiful3 · 25/05/2020 14:59

@MazDazzle I'm fasting too! I've just eaten a salad and will be making soup for later. I dont have a drink to take the hunger pangs away as I dont drink tea/coffee. Trying to stop the coke zero habit too! Just lots of water. Can't wait for tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/05/2020 15:24

Good luck, beaut

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 25/05/2020 15:54

Thanks BigChocFrenzy!

Beautiful3 · 25/05/2020 16:00

Well done @DietChic. Great idea about measurements. Think I'll do that too!

MazDazzle · 25/05/2020 18:19

Good luck Beaut!

The day has whizzed by for me. Thankfully. Had a stir fry for dinner now off to clean the kitchen!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/05/2020 20:23

Well done, maz

How did the other Monday fasters do ?

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 25/05/2020 21:04

I've had 426 calories today. Going to check the kitchen if theres anything I can have, that doesn't take me over the 500.

Beautiful3 · 25/05/2020 21:06

Glad it was busy for you MazDazzle. Today was a slow day! I was literally waiting for my meal😂

emcla · 25/05/2020 21:23

Fd completed. Busy day. Busy is best on fd’s. Well done all you Monday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/05/2020 21:36

Well done on your FDs, Beaut, emcla

OP posts:
DietChic · 25/05/2020 21:44

Good fasting! I’m back in it tomorrow - Sunday was the easiest so far - hopefully tomorrow will be straightforward. I have a pair of jeans that are a struggle to fit in. I might try them on when I get up to remind myself not to get cocky over my 2lb SV..

Battenburg1978 · 26/05/2020 06:48

Hi all Smile

Well done on the inches lost DietChic - that’s amazing! And on all the successful fast days.

Yesterday’s FD completed, though it was tough while baking with DD.

Weigh in this morning and no weight lost despite now starting to feel like I’d lost some. I think I will take some measurements too.

New running shoes arrived last week and went for first C25K run to ease back into it. About 10 years ago I did triathlons but need to start from the beginning again! From the past I know that as soon as I start exercising the scale weight becomes difficult to drop but it is so dispiriting after 2 good fast days.

I know I’m still eating too much on NFD but in line with my ‘gradual’ aims first step is to reduce snacking for a few weeks until that becomes more of a habit.

Anyone else post-40 feel like the weight just doesn’t want to shift like it would have a few years ago?!!

Good luck to those fasting today x

devildeepbluesea · 26/05/2020 06:52

Morning, well done @DietChic on the loss, and same to all the Monday fasters. FD for me today. Dog walk, run and Bodypump this morning then work. Hopefully not too boring a day!

Who else is fasting today?

Beautiful3 · 26/05/2020 07:08

@Battenburg1978 good for you. Dont know how you controlled yourself whilst baking I would dived into the batter mix! 🙈 I'm close to 40. I realised last year when I piled on 3 stone in months, that my body was changing. I used to be able to burn a stone before the summer just by eating less! I started exercising (hiit) five times a week, but I never lost any weight! I saw my gp who tested my thyroid, which came back normal. He suggested that it may be pre menopausal related, which makes sense. My mum went through an early change at 40 and suddenly put on weight too. The GP seems to think this may happen with me too. My stomach has for the first time since the 5:2 plan, shrunk! So I know its helping. Good luck to everyone fasting today!

OohMrDarcy · 26/05/2020 07:11

Morning all

FD for me today. Going to make the jerk chicken and pineapple skewers I did last week and have mine with a pile of salad I think. Just working out approx calories to see if I have any spare after that.

Hope you all had a lovely long weekend, I know I did Smile

Congrats on the SV dietchic