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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

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Thread gallery
10
devildeepbluesea · 23/05/2020 08:02

Morning everyone.

I STS after my 2nd FD on Thursday but as yesterday (weigh day) was slap bang on day 2 of TOTM I'm not bothered about it. Had a big loss in week one and I am already quite muscular - under all the fat, that is 😂

DietChic · 23/05/2020 08:04

Hurray for NFDs!

BCF - I’m not sure what the scales thing is. I am usually in at around 1400-2000 calories on NFDs. I use MFP daily and religiously. I’ve overeaten to discomfort twice since January and that’s it. I’ve cut out Diet Coke completely, and caffeine, I weigh everything I eat, I measure out my olive oil etc. I’m mostly low carb though I am easing up on that a bit.

BUT - I am smaller, my trousers are looser and I know the scales will have to give if I stick with it. I know I have to drink more water, I find 2L a real slog, and I fully expect Monday to be The Day of Loss!

devildeepbluesea · 23/05/2020 08:04

Good luck to any Saturday fasters - BCF are.yku doing your usual one?
Bit of a treat for us tonight, Chinese takeaway. But that's after Bodypump and a trip to the local country park. DD will cycle and as my new bike hasn't arrived, I'll be walk / running. It's about a 5mile round trip so a decent outing. What's everyone else up to?

homeschoolhell · 23/05/2020 08:56

That's rubbish moon

spatch if you had a full on weekend then maybe it'll show next week?

Well done on the trouser nsv diet Smile

I can report my weight today as scales playing up, I only replaced the battery about a month ago so not sure what's going on. Stepped on and it said 2lb on Shock and then jumped to 5lb on 🤯 got off and back on and it was 3lb on! Did this quite a few times and got so many different readings, none off though....very annoyed!

homeschoolhell · 23/05/2020 08:57

'Can't'

OohMrDarcy · 23/05/2020 09:41

Morning all

Scales the same this morning, so am staying focused on not pigging out so I can ensure a loss next week.

Just getting ready to head out for a 10km walk with the kids this morning which I am looking forward to

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 10:34

Yes, Devil I'm fasting today - Anyone else ?

I recommend against weighing during totm for other folk who get discouraged by scales blips
Anyway, don't take any value seriously until after your next FD following the end of totm

Yes, Spatchcock Intermittent fasting can help resolve some issues of insulin metabolism.
It has helped some peri / post-meno women after nothing else works - but with hormonal issues, progress is still likely slower than average
It is also one of the few strategies that can actually lower "set points"

Moonlight That's a good idea to say mfp for 1 week, to check the NFDs
Many on here have been quite shocked by the NFD totals once after it's all added up

mfp would highlight which areas to tackle:

hidden calorie bombs, too many treats, too many carbs, alcohol, lattes, or just portion size of healthy food

Your NFDs sound fine, Chic so you are due a whoosh
I recommend starting the day with a glass of water and continue drinking - it can help
Try sparkling water with ice and a slice to jazz up the drinking.

Enjoy your walk, MrD - take plenty of water !

Homeschool I don't know if the scales are old, so the springs may be defective now ?

Also, these points are important when weighing:

. Use the scales in the same place on a hard, level surface - not carpet

. Switch on the scales and count slowly to 3, so they have time to calibrate

. then step on - don't jump on, whatever your type of scales

. Keep still and don't lean to the side or to the back / front

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homeschoolhell · 23/05/2020 12:39

It's a few years old now, I think half the problem is I cant keep it out anywhere (bathroom too small) no room in kitchen and everywhere else is carpeted Hmm

Might just get a new one, any recommendations?

Just broke my fast with a bowl of berries and full fat greek yogurt, that's it until curry tonight 😋

Enjoy your walk mrd we are shortly heading out to the woods (only about a 2 mile walk) but ds will complain if any further 🤔 although looking at the tree blowing in the garden I'm wondering if the woods is the safest place to be walking!

downcherrytreelane · 23/05/2020 16:00

Weigh day today and I have lost 3lbs this week taking me to 8lbs loss in the four weeks I have been doing 5:2 so far. I have started seeing small subtle changes in my body too which is really motivating.

I am really enjoying doing 5:2, it has felt so easy and has improved my relationship with food so much. I used to comfort eat in the evenings most days in a week and I have not comfort eaten at all in these four weeks.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 17:22

Congratulations on your SV, Cherry
and new eating habits NSV
That's a very good start

I had a rather cold Rhine walk, then spin and free weights at the gym
The sun is out now, so I'll have another more pleasant walk

.... OK, real reason is my pedometer arrivied last night and it's such a fun toy Grin
I cba with smart watches that I have to keep charging, uploading etc; this is handy with 3D sensors that tell me all I need, in large digits too

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emcla · 23/05/2020 17:46

Hope your fd is going well. Lots of fun with the new pedometer!

Beautiful3 · 23/05/2020 18:07

Are you guys weighing yourselves every week? It's only the end of week one and I'm too scared to weigh myself (even though I've stuck to the calories). I don't think I could handle it if I gain!🙄 I might leave the weighing scales for a couple more weeks.😆

DietChic · 23/05/2020 18:32

I might do another FD tomorrow - I’m on my own for Sunday so no bother over doing separate meals. And then I can be even surer Monday is a weight I want to see!

I just looked in the fridge and have FD ‘materials’ so might as well!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 18:34

Beaut No problem - everyone is different and you are in charge of this:
you could weigh say every 4 weeks, or 6 weeks,
and in the meantime just go by the fit of a particular item of clothing

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BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 18:35

emcla Pedometer is really good - it counts all my steps, but not my arm waves Smile

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BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 18:37

Sounds a good opportunity, Chic
Go for it !

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Beautiful3 · 23/05/2020 18:37

@BigChocFrenzy thanks so much for starting this thread, it's really helpful. That's a good point, I am in charge and I can weigh myself when I want to. Think it may be in 4-6 weeks time!

DietChic · 23/05/2020 18:38

Pedometer sounds good!

Beautiful - I weigh daily but just as a sort of loose monitor. I don’t mind fluctuations, they’re natural, but historically if I have stopped weighing myself for any length of time I have gained weight. Expanded quietly into stretchy jeans til I’m muffin topped. Ended up insisting dresses are ‘easier’ when I just mean more comfortable.... etc etc.

I actually have had travel bathroom scales for a few years which I take in hold luggage. I might be tubby but I know exactly how tubby to the nearest lb!

Beautiful3 · 23/05/2020 19:55

@DietChic I wouldnt mind weighing myself every day if I was closer to my target weight. But its sickening for me to see that I'm 3 stone and 7 lbs overweight. I know exactly what you mean about transitioning from tight jean's to stretchy leggings/dresses! 😆

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 20:58

Just having a Bovril with a tbsp veg mix, to finish my miniFD on about 750 cals
I've done just over 18k steps with my 2 Rhine walks, plus spin class and heavy lifting at the gym

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Beautiful3 · 24/05/2020 08:47

Hmmm bovrill. Haven't had that for years! (Adds that to the shopping list)

DietChic · 24/05/2020 09:03

I’m about 2 and a half stone overweight. I don’t love my scale number but I read somewhere once that women who are at war with their bodies treat them (their bodies) like appendages whereas your body is “you”. I don’t know if that makes sense but it struck a chord with me. I don’t want to force my body as a separate entity to shrink, I would like be smaller. That’s not very clear is it!

I also bought Bovril last week! And it may well come in useful today. So delicious.

Black coffee til lunchtime, lots of water and I have mussels for lunch, with tomato salad and half a slice of seedy bread and some dim sum (and not much of it!) for dinner.

I will be leaving eating as long as I can possibly stand it.

Beautiful3 · 24/05/2020 18:50

Is drinking a can of coke zero okay on fasting days? I dont drink tea/coffee/alcohol and feel like I need a can to fill me up on my fasting days

Beautiful3 · 24/05/2020 18:51

@downcherrytreelane well done, 8lbs in 4 weeks is brilliant!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/05/2020 19:57

Beaut Mosely recommends against even diet fizzy junk - the sweeteners can still spike insulin, or longterm change your gut flora towards weight gain.

Coke / Pepsi seems the worst fizz, because of its possible longterm effect on bones and kidneys

However, maybe wean yourself off gradually, with just 1 can on the FDs, none on the NFDs ?
and go for say lemonade or ginger beer instead ?

Fizzy water - UNflavoured - is fine, with ice & a slice of fruit

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