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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 21/05/2020 13:22

Good luck today, Waspie, Moonlight

OP posts:
downcherrytreelane · 21/05/2020 16:36

Checking in again after around a week. Today is my second FD of the week, I am just holding off for another hour until I can have my dinner.

I would love to know what everyone's favourite FD meals are?

My go-to FD day is my morning coffee with milk (50 calories) and 2 boiled eggs on toast for dinner (380 calories), it's very filling and satisfying.

I have 70 calories left and trying to figure how I could use them... I may just go for a bowl of strawberries to have as a dessert.

OohMrDarcy · 21/05/2020 18:02

Evening all

FD2 complete on 500 bang on here. Happy with that.
Meals here generally consist of
Omelette (with a little ham and cheese)
Soups
Stir fry
Casseroles etc minus whatever carbs I do for others
Chilli
Mini roasts, so for example a chicken breast, 4 or 5 veggies and a little gravy

moonlight1705 · 21/05/2020 19:02

Finished the day on 604 so quite pleased with that. Well done mrd on your bang on calories Smile

devildeepbluesea · 21/05/2020 19:02

Evening everyone. Well done all the other Thursday fasters.
I had a wobble earlier, DD came back from her dad's and I always struggle to fast with her around and I diced head first into the salted popcorn. However I've pulled it back, had chicken and veg kebabs for tea and foregone the 2 eggs I was planning.

I think I've just about pulled it back and we are both having an early night.

Sweet dreams everyone.

Winecheesesleep · 21/05/2020 20:29

Finishing the day on 516 (including a factored in cup of tea later), pretty hungry but its been OK. I made turkey burgers for the family and had mine with braised lettuce (cooked in chicken stock) whilst they had the usual bun, cheese etc - it was nice that we could have the same basis for our meals rather than me eating something completely different. It was pretty tasty too!

OohMrDarcy · 21/05/2020 21:11

Well done all, lots of fab fasting achieved today!

Devil, sounds like you managed to pull it back to me

BigChocFrenzy · 21/05/2020 22:09

Well done, downcherry, MrD, moonlight, devil, wine and all the Thursday fasters
Now for a good night's sleep

I've flexibility class tomorrow morning, so I'll see you all after Smile

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 22/05/2020 05:54

Hi I'm new to the thread, thanks for the link @maxelly. I only started the 5:2 on Monday. Found it okay so far. This thread is really useful. I have 3 stone 7lbs to lose. Fingers crossed this works!

OohMrDarcy · 22/05/2020 07:06

Morning all

Scales say I have STS this week

I shall continue being good and see if a loss shows tomorrow as it has occasionally, and if not then I will keep on keeping on and it should next week.

But still... Meh

spatchcock · 22/05/2020 08:12

Hi @Beautiful3!

@OohMrDarcy commiserations. That is a demoralising feeling. I have not seen a significant loss yet but have been all over the place with TOTM so crossing my fingers for weigh in tomorrow.

Friday night here, I’ve just finished 3rd FD of the week on just under 600 cals. Dreaming of some treats at the weekend.

Good luck any Friday fasters!

homeschoolhell · 22/05/2020 09:02

Morning everyone and welcome beautiful

Oh mrd that's rubbish, could totm be due which might explain no loss?

Well done spatch

Fd#2 today, woken up hungry which is unusual for me, but gonna power through on tea until lunch. Dh and ds really want a curry tomorrow and our local one is delivering, so tomorrow will be a very light lunch in anticipation of that!

Hope you enjoyed your flexibility class bigchoc
Anyone fasting with me today?

DietChic · 22/05/2020 09:28

I’m fasting today! Tomato salad for lunch and pork steak and salad this evening.

Should be ok - I have a walk this afternoon and early night as ever. My biggest challenge these days is getting the water in!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2020 11:34

Welcome, Beaut 🙂
and good luck

Well done on your FD, Spatchcock

I recommend NOT weighing during totm

==> Most women retain water temporarily during this time, so the scales are often demoralising

Keep drinking plenty of water, so your body doesn't retain even more
and avoid the totm munchies
then the FD after the end of totm should release the excess water, so you can weigh the next day or later in the week, whatever your day is

Good luck, Homeschool, chic
Keep drinking water

iirc, you had a decent loss to start, MrD, so sts is just consolidating that loss
Stay focused on your NFDs, especially this weekend and you should progress next week
and keep drinking water

OP posts:
homeschoolhell · 22/05/2020 18:19

Fd done here slightly higher at 580cals... fancied some strawberries after dinner.

How you getting on diet

spatchcock · 22/05/2020 20:56

Well I’ve weighed in and I’ve lost just under an lb in a week. I’m pretty disappointed- that’s three fast days and eating well in between.

However, I didn’t do well last weekend, so will have to be careful this Sat and Sun to stay on track.

DietChic · 22/05/2020 21:08

All done today at 520 - I also managed 2.5 litres of water which is my main achievement of the week..

Homeschoolhell - a strawberry or three will surely do no harm! I snaffled a few raspberries as my sweet treat and as ever SO LOOKING FORWARD TO EATING NORMALLY TOMORROW!

I do actually find FDs quite hard. I used to find them easier. Hopefully they will improve. It’s all about the protein!

DietChic · 22/05/2020 21:11

Oh - and I have had the same weight for the last 5 Mondays on the trot - but my clothes are looser. 5 weeks of STS is enough to kill my motivation off but it is true that the inches sometimes come off before the pounds. I am due about a stone in whoosh IMO.

spatchcock · 22/05/2020 21:16

That’s encouraging @DietChic. I need to start measuring myself. I do feel lighter.

Well done on your FD.

homeschoolhell · 22/05/2020 22:24

spatch well done on your sv, I don't know how much you have to lose etc but 1lb a week is the average loss isn't it?

Wow diet it definitely sounds like a whoosh is on the cards!

I'm looking forward to eating tomorrow too, we are having an Indian take away though so I'll be skipping breakfast (fine) and having a light lunch.

spatchcock · 22/05/2020 23:22

@homeschoolhell true - but it was my first proper week and in the past that first week has always been a decent loss. But whatever - a loss is a loss and better than the relentless march up the scales that has characterised the last few months!

I have 20kg to lose.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 02:07

If you had a very indulgent weekend, then that's a decent SV, Spatchcock
With your normal WOE, you'd probably have gained a couple of lb

Try to be moderate on NFDs, especially this weekend and then see what your results are next week

btw, 3FDs do sometimes lead to slow loss, because it can lead to automatically being more indulgent on the NFDs than with 2 FDs

Also, if you have dieted and regained more than a few lb several times, then eventually it can become more difficult to lose

This can be because some degree of insulin resistance has set in
imo, it can also be because that starting weight has now become a "set point" because of the accumulated time spent over the years at that weight

Well done on your FD, Chic, Homeschool
More protein & veg can help feel fuller on FDs; also keep drinking water

Well done too on your lost inches NSV, Chic

Many folk have noticed they are "smaller" on 5:2 than they were before at the same weight.

Intermittent fasting can lead to increased % muscle even without increasing exercise
and if bodyfat is burned too, then weight may take a while to change,
but the scales should catch up once more fat goes

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2020 02:11

If you are frustrated by the scales, Chic then I recommend you examine your NFDs - that's usually the issue
e.g. hidden calorie bombs, too many treats or alcoholic drinks, portion size .... some packets have disgracefully misleading labels about portion size

OP posts:
spatchcock · 23/05/2020 03:08

Thanks BCF, some really interesting points to ponder there. I think ageing is also a factor, I am finding it harder in my 40s.

Will fasting help with that insulin resistance?

Enjoy your weekend 🙂

moonlight1705 · 23/05/2020 06:19

Damn, put on 1kg this week. I think I need to do a week of recording every day instead of just the FDs to see where I'm going wrong.