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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
devildeepbluesea · 14/05/2020 09:58

Morning all. Second FD of the week started 4 hours ago for me, since then I've walked the dog, been for a run (dog now nearly 18 and too old to come!), done Bodypump and a quick 15-min yoga to finish off.

I'm in the 1-meal-a-day camp for FDs, I'll probably have some sort of chicken and lentil curry tonight. GALLONS of coffee and squash likely to be consumed today, then another early night!

Good luck all the other fasters and welcome @fannyanney - it's my first week too, although I did do 5:2 very successfully a few years ago.

homeschoolhell · 14/05/2020 10:11

interstellar you can do it, stay strong, what are you planning to eat?

devil your dinner sounds lovely, do you have a recipe?

Welcome fanny and good luck for today, your FD food sounds delicious. I was also called fannyannie when I was younger mrd Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2020 10:49

Good luck today, homeschool, devil , Drifter and any other Thursday fasters

Drifter It can help to recite the FD mantra
"I can have it tomorrow"

You can do this 🤛🏼
It's just one day, twice a week, instead of dieting every day

Welcome, fanny 🙂
and congratulations on your SV - food start

Yes, most will be water weight, but it's good to release that excess
In fact several people on previous threads who had a large amount of water release early on have found that reduces their high BP

"I do head for the snack cupboard after dinner"

Spatchcock Maybe rename it as the "dessert cupboard" ?

You can have treats on 5:2, but they should be as part of an NFD meal,
e.g. pudding or crisps with your sandwich

The amount of treats is a personal choice, but people on any weight loss program do much better if they keep treats to sensible portions and frequency

OP posts:
Waspie · 14/05/2020 12:14

Hi All, checking in with the other Thursday fasters! Busy at work today so I'll catch up with everyone's news later Brew

5Km walk with the dog followed by black coffee for breakfast. I'm planning on a cup a soup for lunch and teryaki salmon and broccoli stir fry for dinner - yum!

Good luck Thursday fasters Flowers

harriethoyle · 14/05/2020 12:59

Hi gang, forgot to check in yesterday which was second of two fast days. I feel grear this week! 4 pt classes done and two fast days.

Top (uk) tip - tesco thai inspired prawn fishcakes are 197 cals each and delicious. I've been having one with a heap of stirfry veg for a 300 calorie dinner. Would highly recommend.

InterstellarDrifter · 14/05/2020 13:44

Wow at your exercise @devildeepbluesea Amazing!

Thanks for the motivational messages Smile
I weighed myself and I’ve stayed the same since my last weigh in so I’m pleased about that. That’s motivated me to try to get the numbers down even more.
I’m making chicken curry today. Everyone will have rice with it but I’ll have it with some chickpeas and spinach or sweet potato and spinach.
I usually only do dinner on fast days. It’s just easier for me.

Good luck to everyone today.

moonlight1705 · 14/05/2020 13:51

I am on another mini today so have got it planned out to get to 955 today.

It is my birthday on Sunday so will not be on a FD however plan to be sensible and having a nice roast dinner with birthday cake as dessert. Until then will do another mini tomorrow to finish off my week and see how the weight has gone on Saturday morning.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2020 14:09

Well done on an excellent week, Harriet

Good luck, waspie, moonlight
That sounds a lovely healthy meal, drifter

OP posts:
devildeepbluesea · 14/05/2020 14:36

Thanks @InterstellarDrifter - but it's all calculated. Exercise is a real appetite suppressant for me, so as long as I don't need to do much else afterwards, I find that doing lots in the morning actually helps me. Back to a more sustainable level tomorrow.

Waspie · 14/05/2020 16:34

Thanks BCF

You sound really upbeat harriet Grin Thanks for the Thai fishcake tip. I will be visiting Tesco this weekend so I'll take a look.

Hope your mini is going well moonlight. Your birthday meal sounds nice. Will birthday cake be home made? It's my birthday in a couple of weeks and I have a weird urge to bake myself a cake. Usually I'm lazy and get a Colin the Caterpillar from M&S!

Enjoy your curry Interstellar; it sounds yummy.

homeschoolhell · 14/05/2020 18:17

Birthday wishes for Sunday moon enjoy Cake it's my birthday tomorrow and dh has been baking my favourite cake, coffee and walnut 😋 house smells amazing but it's made fd tougher! I can have it tomorrow 😁

Fd done on 520cals, cup of tea later if I'm freezing. Hope everyone else is doing okay Smile

devildeepbluesea · 14/05/2020 18:25

Just had a pack of prawns, now fishing up my chicken and lentil winged-it curry. I'll be in bed by 7.30 at the latest, watching a couple of episodes of Life on Mars with a coffee. Roll on tomorrow, today has been hard!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2020 20:44

Well done, homeschool
and Happy Birthday tomorrow ! 🎂 💐
Your DH sounds ace - but his cake timing must have tested your willpower !

Well done on nailing a tough FD, Devil
I suggest you clean your teeth and plan an early night

OP posts:
emcla · 14/05/2020 20:50

Hi all. One successful fd this week and several others sub tdee. Hopefully I will do another proper fd tomorrow. Still eating at least 3 pieces of fruit daily so must aim for less. Not going to weigh in this week as don’t think there is a loss.

homeschoolhell · 14/05/2020 20:59

Thanks bigchoc yep he is pretty awesome 😁 I can forgive him this once!

Well done devil and emcla

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2020 21:05

Do you have your fruit as pud, emcla or in porridge Etc etc ? Obviously don't snack
I suggest you stick to 1 portion at 2 meals and see if that helps loss

Can you substitute a few unsalted almonds or walnuts for 1 portion ?

OP posts:
devildeepbluesea · 14/05/2020 21:06

Thanks BCF - that was my plan but I'm still up. Had a bit of an IT disaster, as my phone suddenly lost all the tracks for the Group Fight class I'm giving via Zoom tomorrow morning.

So I'm re-downloading them all onto special playlists. At least I'm properly tired.now!

emcla · 14/05/2020 22:34

Bigchoc I have the fruit as pud. I’m determined to cut it to one piece I used to eat a lot of nuts but my dentist advised against after I broke a tooth Anyway I’m happy not to eat them as I find them addictive.

spatchcock · 15/05/2020 05:18

I've sneaked in an extra FD this week as it's my first week, and also it's DH's birthday weekend and it will be full of decadent food as well as a restaurant - a novelty after all these weeks!

I've done well surviving on a pumpkin soup for lunch and haven't felt hungry until now, about an hour out from dinner. Now I'm starving. I usually reach for the snacks right now so it's habit as well.

Good luck to all the Friday fasters.

devildeepbluesea · 15/05/2020 05:57

Morning everyone. Spatchcock stay strong, not long to go now.

Just weighed after my 2nd FD yesterday and I've lost a whopping 5.25lb in my first week. If that's not motivation I don't know what is!
We have our weekly zoom quiz tonight so I'll try to stay under the 2000cals. I'm lucky in that alcohol doesn't give me the munchies, so just one vice to control!

ginsparkles · 15/05/2020 07:38

Morning all! Happy birthday @homeschool !! Today I'm practising making a birthday cake for DD's birthday. Never made her birthday cake myself before!!

@harriethoyle the Fishcakes sound yum! Will definitely get some of those.

Hope the Friday Fasters have a great day.

harriethoyle · 15/05/2020 08:19

Well done @devildeepbluesea. Delicious wine is definitely my main vice!

emcla · 15/05/2020 08:23

Well done devil. That’s fantastic!!

emcla · 15/05/2020 08:24

Fd here. Good luck to all Friday fasters.

ginsparkles · 15/05/2020 08:28

Well done @devil !! Fab loss Smile