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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
OohMrDarcy · 12/05/2020 17:17

Evening all - just eaten my dinner so kitchen closed on 526. Very happy with that for first FD for a couple of months.... I have another jug of water by my side and peppermint tea should I need something hot later.

Hope everyone else is managing a good day too

homeschoolhell · 12/05/2020 17:35

Aww thanks waspie 😁

homeschoolhell · 12/05/2020 17:39

moon some days I cant be filled! Hope you manage to stave off the hunger pangs. Can you have an egg, I find they fill me up?

Well done mrd 😁

Just going to make ds tea and then will have mine, coming in just over 519 cals today.

Bath, face mask and early night for me.

DietChic · 12/05/2020 20:27

Think I’m on for another FD tomorrow. I was going to wait till Thursday but the fridge is fairly empty and any excuse to avoid shopping.

Mussels and soup tomorrow.

downcherrytreelane · 12/05/2020 21:11

Was supposed to be having a FD today but ended up absolutely starving at lunch time so I made a sandwich which, along with my morning coffee left me 150 calories to last the day which I just could not manage. So I have eaten normally today and will try again tomorrow. It is nearly my TOTM so I think that is why I am really hungry as I usually find skipping breakfast and lunch quite easy.

Does anyone have any opinions or advice on their approach to 5:2 during their TOTM? The first few days I have to take tablets every 4 hours with food which means I will have to have snacks including at night if I am in pain.

Battenburg1978 · 12/05/2020 23:29

DownCherryTreeLane, hopefully BigChocFrenzy will be able to give you some advice but may e there’s a way you could cut general calories without fasting that week. It sounds tough enough as it is!

BigChocFrenzy, that graph is a revelation TBH. I’ve got horrific snacking habits (off the chart in times of PMT!) Without the snacks my diet would be pretty reasonable (And I’d have more spare cash) and I’d not be in such an overweight pickle. I don’t think I’m going to manage to change everything at once, but for my NFDs I’ll start a food diary to see what I’m eating in a day. Going to have to stop doing so much lockdown baking!!!

1kg lost this week 😊

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2020 23:35

Well done on a good 1st FD back, MrD
Well done too, homeschool

You nailed your mini despite a tough day, moon
You're near that important minigoal, which must be motivating

Sounds like your problem is NFD intake - I recommend you stick to the 5:2 healthy guidelines for now,
but if you plateau again, then have just one week on mfp, to highlight problem areas to work on

What might help now is to write a daily food diary, including everything
Even without counting calories, it could highlight if you have too many treats per week, alcohol, lattes ....
whether you succumbed to snacks, too many high cal meals like pizza etc

Don't worry about it down it can be difficult to fast during totm, as it can make blood suagr unstable
Beans e.g. kidney beans, chick peas, have been proven to help stabilise blood sugar, so have a good portion of these
A tbsp of flaxmeal or chia seeds (only 1 per day) can help you feel fuller - but drink plenty of water with either

Also boost lean protein & veg and keep to low carb FDs, without even any starches or fruit.

If you need to take meds with food,
then every 4 hours is not a problem during the day, as that can just be 4 small / medium meals per day

During the night, if you need meds, I recommend a v small "minimeal," which by definition is protein and fat, no junk.
During the night, I also recommend against fruit, so
e.g. a dozen unsalted almonds, 20g hard cheese, or half a boiled egg
(keep a supply in the fridge of boiled eggs or ready portioned bags of nuts or cheese)

and clean your teeth afterwards, to avoid temptation.

OP posts:
spatchcock · 13/05/2020 02:56

"I opened the bubbles for the 3pm toast and then sort of continued toasting things for several hours."

Grin

After yesterday's FD, I've managed to hang out till lunch today to eat, and it was some filling vege soup. I do tend to hoard my calories till dinner, maybe not a great idea.

I'm also thinking that instead of waiting till dinner to eat on a FD I should have some low cal soup for lunch. I usually don't eat breakfast so if I do this maybe the day will feel kind of normal.

devildeepbluesea · 13/05/2020 06:32

Morning everyone. Dipping tentatively in after my first FD yesterday.

I did 5:2 very successfully a few years ago, but I've struggled to keep my FD focus since then. Hopefully the invisible switch has flipped again and I'm back to it (FD yesterday was hard but not impossible).

I would like to lose 2st, perhaps a bit more, and I've always found that 5:2 somehow targets my problem areas. I'm also a big exerciser, currently surviving on Bodypump, running and combat but can't wait to get back in the gym to lift heavy. Hopefully I'll see an improvement there too.

Second FD tomorrow so I plan to enjoy today!!

Happy Wednesday all.

ginsparkles · 13/05/2020 07:57

Morning everyone. Fast day for me today. Porridge late morning as a brunch, then turkey stir fry for dinner. Hope everyone has a good day.

OohMrDarcy · 13/05/2020 09:12

Morning all

Feeling good after yesterdays FD here. Got my jug of water next to me and sat planning my meals for todays NFD. Well done to all yesterdays fasters - great job all round.

Down - I've heard TOTM fasting is notorious as you can get insane munchies, just do what you can that week I guess? I've a contraceptive implant so don't get those same hormonal swings as much.

Good luck today Gin and anyone else I've missed

Upsidedownrightnow · 13/05/2020 09:27

So i weighed myself today and I'm 9.13.4 last week after my 2nd fd I was 9.11.2 ☹️ I know I'm massively over eating on my non fd so this week I'm definitely attempting 3 fd and then calorie counting after that!

Waspie · 13/05/2020 09:45

I have weeks like that Upsidedown; please don't despair Flowers As BCF says, weight loss isn't always linear. Are you using MFP to record calories? I do find it helps me keep within my TDEE on NFDs.

Well done on your FDs MrD, Deepbluesea, homeschool and everyone else who fasted yesterday.

Good SV Battenburg!

I always have a cup a soup at lunchtime on FD's Spatcock. I look forward to those 44 calories enormously Grin

Good luck today DietChic and other Wednesday fasters.

homeschoolhell · 13/05/2020 10:17

welcome devil and good luck

fantastic SV battenburg

gah that's frustrating upside probably good to do a week of strict MFP-ing just to check if you are overeating on your NFDs

good luck gin diet and everyone else fasting today.

Fab work mrd

NFD today, broke my fast with some greek yog and blueberries, going to have couscous salad with some chicken for lunch with a yog afterwards then we have homemade turkey burgers for tea, DH and DS will have potatoes of some sort with theirs but I'll have a HUGE salad and maybe some green beans.

Have a great day everyone Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 13/05/2020 11:26

Welcome, Devil 🙂
and well done on your 1st FD
I'm looking forward to the gym too - I'm a gym rat in Germany, so hopefully not long to wait

Good luck, Gin and any other fasters

Upside Sounds like mfp on NFDs would help you see which habits to retrain:
hidden calorie bombs, amount of treats, alcohol, portion size ...

Give mfp say 2 weeks and then consider whether you feel confident enough to try without mfp

Also, I recommend you do 3 miniFDs (800-1000 calories, no junk, no alcohol) rather than FDs,
to help reduce the urge to overeat on NFDs
You want your WOE to be sustainable longterm, because it's what happens over several weeks that determines weight loss, rather than 1-2 very strict weeks,

SPatchcock It's fine to skip NFD breakfast or to eat it, whichever suits your individual body and lifestyle.

However, I recommend having a good lunch, not saving too many calories for supper
Avoid eating a large NFD meal late in the evening

  • it delays the overnight fast, when you want to burn bodyfat for as long as possible.

Also for health - research shows that large meals after about 8pm increase risks of CVD, high BP, strokes

However, just having supper on FD is popular here and absoutely OK, because it would be at most 500 calories
but do try to finish eating by about 8 pm (assuming you are not a shift worker)

OP posts:
DietChic · 13/05/2020 19:14

Ok - kitchen closed on 482. I had bought soup for FDs and about 9 times out of 10 I wastefully decide on the day that I don’t even like soup and have omelette instead. I also buy stir fry veg for the same reason.

Anyway. The soup got eaten today, it was great - am not exactly ‘full up’ but satisfied enough.

Very early bed though as ever! And a run in the morning.

Moanranger · 13/05/2020 20:26

upside -Bad luck, but I note you are not particularly overweight, so it will be slower.
I am into 4th week, and I have been good on FDs, but seem to lose control on NFDs. I do well with structure, so I am now following a ketogenic menu plan on NFDs. Satisfying, recipes good, and does not include booze, sweets. Hoping that helps - we shall see.

ginsparkles · 13/05/2020 20:46

Bad luck upside , I know I'll be doing some 4:3 weeks once lockdown is over. Today wasn't a great FD. Coming in at 749. But hey ho!!

Hope the other fasters had a more successful day than me! Good luck to anyone on a Thursday fast.

DietChic · 13/05/2020 21:12

I am in bed, teeth brushed and watching clips from Dr Pimple Popper to kill my appetite completely. It is surprisingly successful!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/05/2020 21:31

Well done, Chic
and the early night will boost your fasting benefits.

That's fine, gin
Mosely has a more relaxed version of 5:2 with 800 FDs, that is a bit slower for women,
but it's useful when you are easing your way in to fasting, or just having a tough day

OP posts:
spatchcock · 14/05/2020 07:49

Thanks for the info on distributing calories on NFDs @BigChocFrenzy. I tend to eat early (smallish children) so all good there. However I do head for the snack cupboard after dinner, but am getting better at that! (Really doesn’t help having a skinny rake of a DH who eats whatever he likes at any hour).

The pimple popper sounds 🤮 @DietChic! But if I get desperate... 🤷‍♀️

homeschoolhell · 14/05/2020 08:39

Morning everyone, urgh diet 🤢🤮 that sounds gross! But I guess whatever works eh 🤣

Fd #2 today, think in going chicken and eggs again to keep me full. Anyone else fasting today?

InterstellarDrifter · 14/05/2020 08:52

I’ve had a really busy few days and the stress has made me a bit lax with fasting. I’ve tried to do it but ended up eating things like fish pie for dinner on a fast day so it probably wasn’t very effective.
I’m focussed again now so back to proper fasting.
Fast day today for me. I already feel that it’s going to be difficult.

fannyanney · 14/05/2020 09:17

Hi everyone,

I'm new to 5:2, I've read through the whole thread (which has been very helpful, especially the tabata recommendations and no snacking rule) and did my first FD on Monday. I've lost 5lb since Monday but I presume it's mostly water rather than actual weight loss.

Today is fast day number 2. Planning on a 2 egg omelette/2 boiled eggs mashed up with some salt and pepper or something along those lines for lunch. Then salmon and broccoli stir fry for dinner.

I'm planning on having my FDs on Mondays and Thursdays. I don't think today is going to be as easy as Monday, but hopefully the thought of 3 NFDs will get me through.

OohMrDarcy · 14/05/2020 09:34

Morning all

Upside - boo to the gain. If you don't feel you want to MFP to help then maybe just try and be a bit more mindful on FDs - no snacking, more water etc.

Waspie - cuppasoup on a FD sounds a great idea - and PERFECT for fasting with the kids about... adding some to my shopping list now!

Homeschool that NFD menu sounds yummy! Good luck for todays FD

Diet - well done eating that soup! Grin

Gin - well done on your FD

Welcome Fanny, sounds like you have a good plan there, my dad used to call my sister your username when we were kids Grin

NFD here - meals planned for the day, cup of tea and water jug beside me. Next FD is tomorrow.