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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Upsidedownrightnow · 09/05/2020 07:31

@downcherrytreelane - wow a non planned fast day that's impressive 😁😁 I don't think this would ever happen to me.

I had a fast day yesterday but found it really difficult the other fast days were much easier. I think I ended on around 600cals but that's really not bad considering how I felt 😂

Im excited about eating today.

My mum baked scones yesterday and I really fancy some so im rushing out to the shops early today to buy some

moonlight1705 · 09/05/2020 07:45

Morning everyone, sorry I have not been on the thread lately. It has just been busy with work and getting my final module essays in for my masters. I did manage three minis and have lost 0.5kg this week.

I am now back to a weight I was exactly a year ago, I then had to stop breastfeeding and spent 4 months putting on the weight before I found this group and 8 months taking it back off. Smile

homeschoolhell · 09/05/2020 08:30

Morning everyone, well done on all the fds 😃

Well done on the sv moon that's amazing progress

1st week weigh in and I'm down 3lbs 😁 yay! I'm happy with that as i didnt snack all week and tried to eat on nfds without calorie counting, so I know I can do it.

Have a great day everyone...

inthethickofit19 · 09/05/2020 10:03

Morning all,

Just realised why I've 'failed' my last few FD attempts. I think it's a salts issue - is it marmite which will help? I've never had it! Can't do Bovril as needs to be vegetarian.

emcla · 09/05/2020 10:57

Morning all
Upside that’s still a good fd. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Welcome back moonlight. Hope the studies go well and well done on your sv

Homeschool that’s a great Sv. Well done

I also am down 3 lbs. I am hovering just above 9 st. I want to lose another 7 pounds approximately and always find it difficult to break through the 9 stone mark. Delighted anyway as the weight loss has been quicker than I expected. I’m off for a cycle in the sun. Xx

homeschoolhell · 09/05/2020 11:46

inthethick yes its marmite or a teaspoon of soy sauce (I think)

Wow emcla that's fab, enjoy your bike ride 😁

InterstellarDrifter · 09/05/2020 12:08

Well done @homeschoolhell and @emcla. Brilliant losses.

I think I’m probably eating too much on my non fast days so I need to rethink that. I don’t really want to count calories as I can’t be bothered. It’s too much thinking! I’m just going to up my veg and eat less carbs.
I had the most delicious salad yesterday. It was just a pile of spinach, sliced tomatoes and mozzarella all sprinkled with black pepper and balsamic vinegar.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2020 15:38

Congratulations on your SV, emcla
That's fab when you are so near goal

Congratulations too, homeschool
Your new no snacking policy will have been a big help

Well done too, Moonlight
Do you have a further goal or minigoal to aim for ?

Well done on sticking to your FD, Upside on a tough day

Happy birthday for tomorroow, Kitty 💐
Definitely have some real cake as well as this one: 🎂

Fair For the petite and time-poor, a few minutes Tabata is a good way to start boosting fitness and exercise
Also, if you take a long walk afterwards, it would give you a break from a maybe unhelpful OH
and save you digging under the patio

Good luck with the Marmite, inthethick
1 level teasp mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon should help
Or 1 tbsp unsweetened soy sauce

Drifter Upping veg is alway a good idea if loss is slow - beans / peas / lentils as well
and cutting right down on junky carbs - cake, biscuits, sweets, crisps, deep fried food etc

2 other important NFD tips:
. no snacking EVER between meals
. NHS alcohol limits, daily & weekly

OP posts:
TheBuriedGiant · 09/05/2020 19:02

Evening all,
Well done to the fasters today and all the SVs! You’re all doing brilliantly. I’m hoping for a loss when I weigh myself on Monday, I’ll be doing a FD tomorrow. I’m hovering on the 14st mark, down from 15.2st before lockdown, would really like to be 13st something by Monday so fingers crossed. Need to get down to 11st.
Have had a good NFD today keeping to three meals and the only thing I had that is unhealthy is a little bit of ice cream. I’m going to have a bath now to keep me away from the kitchen! Have a good evening all

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2020 19:53

That's a fab lockdown SV, Giant and a good NFD
Good luck for Monday weigh-in

OP posts:
ginsparkles · 09/05/2020 19:55

Hello, can I come and join in? I have been a 5:2'er for a year or so now, usually fine with it but struggling in lockdown! FD's fine it's the days in between causing the issues!

inthethickofit19 · 09/05/2020 21:52

BCF it's the Amoy soya light and Amoy soya dark that I have in the cupboard. Doesn't say whether it's sweetened or not. Would you happen to know?

Wow fab work emcla!

Well done for all the SV and NSV.

Really hope I'll be joining you real soon.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2020 00:50

inthethick They both contain sugar, so maybe not a good FD choice - save for NFDs

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/253778008

I recommend Marmite anyway, next time you shop, as it boosts B Vits and minerals
Just glug a teasp like medicine, even if you aren't a fan - see if it helps your FDs

Welcome, gin 🙂
You could try a system of 3 miniFDs (800-1000 cal) instead of 2 FDs, to reduce the number of NFDs

However, whatever system you prefer, what helps sensible NFDs is

5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals - eat meals, nothing between
  • AIm for a daily eating window of no more than 12 hours, called 12:12 e.g. first meal at 8am and finish last meal by 8pm
  • On NFDs, you can have sensible amount of treats (e.g. alcohol, lattes, pies, crisps, sugary treats) BUT only part of a meal, not on their own
  • Lots of water & veg each day
  • Cut down on fizzy drinks, even diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)
  • Plenty of sleep
OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 10/05/2020 09:46

OK thanks. Will grab some today.

ginsparkles · 10/05/2020 15:23

That's a good idea @BigChocFrenzy ! Definitely worth a punt! Part of me thinks I am maintaining as I am, so I might just stick with maintenance until "normal" returns !

downcherrytreelane · 10/05/2020 21:26

I am wondering what to do about late night cravings... I don't drink alcohol so before I started 5:2 I would often eat chocolate in the evening and it became my way to destress from the day.

Since starting 5:2 three weeks ago I have stopped this completely but this weekend in the evening I keep craving something sweet, usually a couple of hours after dinner. I have a few treats like small chocolate bars so I know I could easily limit the calorie content of an evening snack. I also don't eat breakfast, eat lunch at 2pm and then dinner at 7pm so I usually only have a 5 hour eating window on NFD as is.

Should I let myself have some type of dessert once a week at the weekend or just try and cut it out completely?

EssentialHummus · 10/05/2020 22:07

Down I'd personally allow desserts at the weekend ideally as part of / immediately after a meal. The rest of the week - brush your teeth early! Really helps.

I'm still not fasting but trying to stick to healthy eating for the moment, and (broadly) succeeding. And lurking Grin. Hope everyone is staying well.

Battenburg1978 · 10/05/2020 22:26

Evening fasters and we’ll done on the losses!

It’s right before TOTM for me and it seems like the weight of lost over the week has packed straight back on! Bit tough mentally to see that but I guess I need to focus on the long game instead. I must admit I do snack on NFDs but not as much as I used to. Because of PMT I just want to eat All The Things right now. Fast day tomorrow so hopefully that will get me back on track.

Here’s to a good start to the week for all of us Wine

HedgeHogFoxBadger · 10/05/2020 22:31

Ok so I am wanting to start tomorrow, My TDEE says i need 1950 calories a day, I dont eat that in calories a day anyway but I am drinking wine every night which I want to stop and that adds calories.
So when I am calorie counting my aim is 1500 a day.
Can you explain how I would lose weight by eating my TDEE calries and 500 cals on my fast day?

ginsparkles · 11/05/2020 09:02

Morning. Fast day for me today. Salad planned for lunch and then a tomato and basil soup for dinner. Have a lovely day all.

DietChic · 11/05/2020 09:58

FD today for me - I weighed the same this morning as last Monday morning. And the Monday before that. And the Monday before that. And the Monday before THAT.

But at least it’s not going on! I went for a run this morning. Which will undoubtedly lead to rampant hunger later but I will beat that into submission with an omelette.

I won’t deny the plateau is boring me. But I will carry on for the health benefits and something has Got To Give!

(And I need to drink more water)

Winecheesesleep · 11/05/2020 10:17

Hi all. I started 5:2 last week but weighed in today and haven't lost anything. I'm not hugely surprised because it was my birthday at the weekend and we had a Chinese and just generally indulged. I guess I hoped it might be counter balanced by the FDs but I probably pushed it too far!

I will try again this week. I'm one of those people who have done all the diets sadly so am really hoping this one works. I lost a bit in January with calorie counting but all our meals are family meals with the lockdown and I liked the idea that 5 days a week I wouldn't need to think about calorie counting and separating my food from theirs.

homeschoolhell · 11/05/2020 10:26

morning everyone and welcome to the newbies Smile

down I would say have a treat of something that you fancy on the weekend as part of your meal, if you make it too restrictive then it becomes difficult and you might be likely to give up (but that might just be me)

wine if you had your birthday and STS then I'd say that was pretty successful, hopefully you will see a loss after your 2 FDs this week.

NFD today, planning FDs for tomorrow and thursday, its my birthday this friday so will indulge a little then Cake Wine

good luck Monday fasters Smile

EssentialHummus · 11/05/2020 11:03

Can you explain how I would lose weight by eating my TDEE calries and 500 cals on my fast day?

You’ll have a 3000 kcal weekly deficit if you stick to this, which typically equates to a 2lb (?) weekly loss, everything else being equal.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2020 13:28

Good luck today, gin, chic, hedgehog and any other Monday fasters

"how I would lose weight by eating my TDEE calries and 500 cals on my fast day?
You’ll have a 3000 kcal weekly deficit if you stick to this,

which typically equates to a 2lb (?) ONE lb weekly loss longterm

Many people lose more initially, then it settles down to the 1lb weekly average,
usually more than that if you have a lot to lose, less if you are already weell within healthy BMI

Down Mosely says never have snacks between meals
especially late in the evening

I recommend that after supper you have a glass of water and then clean your teeth - it gives a fresh minty taste and helps remove temptation to nibble

If you want sweet treats, then have them as part of an NFD meal, as your pud.
You decide how often, e.g. start at 1 pud per NFD, then cut back to pud on only 3 NFDs

wine sounds like on NFDs you ate back the calorie deficit from FDs

You don't diet on the NFDs, but to lose, they should be "maintenance days" not feast days.
I recommend you keep to the 5:2 healthy NFD guidelines listed above

However, many people who have been quite overweight for a long time have got used to eating more than they burn,
so you may need to retrain your "normal" intake

Don't beat yourself up; it's quite a common problem nowadays

If you don't lose much after 2 weeks, then I recommend even just 1 week on mfp
That has been a reality check for many people, to highlight hidden calorie bonbs, amount of treats, or just portion size of reasonably heathy food

OP posts: