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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
InterstellarDrifter · 04/05/2020 19:41

Well done @emcla and @dietchic

Thank you for all the positives about my arse NSV Smile
I hope it works on my belly too! I’ve been doing some sit ups and planks as part of my routine so I’m just waiting for the toned version to emerge. Hopefully, I’ll see it after the 20lbs of fat is lost.

Another fast day done. I hope everyone else had a successful day.

homeschoolhell · 04/05/2020 20:17

Thanks for the advice bigchoc and waspie and well done dietchic and interstellar

Had chargrilled chicken breast with couscous and roasted veg followed by a small amount of greek yogurt with raspberries and a teaspoon of lemon curd swirled in, delicious!

Fd #1 tomorrow, any tips :-) I'm planning lots of veg / salad and some protein, but not exactly sure what yet!!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/05/2020 21:32

Well done, Chic

Drifter Exercise does help tighten up the bod and improve shape,
while fasting burns the bodyfat
Strength and also HIIT are especially good for this

Good luck, Homeschool
Tips for tomorrow:

Plan and calorie count your menu for the day tonight - you don't want to be thinking on the day
Stick to the plan tomorrow

  • so no ad hoc / impulsive eating, no leftovers to clear the plates of other people

Protein and plenty of veg is always a good plan
e.g. salad, stir fry

Start the day with a glass of water and keep drinking through the day

I suggest you glug a teasp of Marmite (or a tbsp of UNsweetened soy sauce) mid-morning and mid-afternoon,
to help avoid headaches while your body adapts to fasting

OP posts:
homeschoolhell · 04/05/2020 22:19

Wow thank you bigchoc
Okay, off to calorie count now :-)

TheBuriedGiant · 04/05/2020 22:36

Evening all, had a few bad food days at the weekend but managed a miniFD yesterday and an ok NFD today which has helped me feel back on track.
Well done all on your NSV’s! I’ll be joining you on a FD day tomorrow homeschoolhell Smile

Upsidedownrightnow · 04/05/2020 23:17

Hi everyone, I hope you are all doing well.

I fasted on Friday and today and both went really well. I know when I did fasting before sometimes I was starving, I have been hungry at times but really not too bad atall.

I had pork loin and veg for dinner then some porridge as i hate going to bed hungry and its still under 500cals.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow for my weigh in :)

I have actually found it way easier than doing 16:8 as it meant i was restricted every day.

Whats everyone's favourite lower calories non fast day breakfasts?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/05/2020 23:39

Well done, giant, upside

Upside If I'm training early, I just have black coffee for breakfast

If I just have my long Rhine walk, then I like breakfast first
e.g.

. 2 crepes (2 eggs, 1 tbsp flaxmeal, cashew milk) with 1 banana, 1 kiwi & flaked almonds, sprinkled with cocoa powder or

. 2 eggs scrambled with mushrooms, garlic, raw tomato & cress or

. Whey Porridge pot,1 tbsp chia seeds, cinammon & 2 tbsp frozen berries

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 05/05/2020 07:31

Morning

Got caught up and didn't get around to coming back last night. Another successful NFD with no snacking and plenty of water, that habit is getting easier already luckily!
Kids are back this morning so I'll plan the weeks meals with them (particularly as DD is loving cooking at the moment) but thinking some kind of chicken casserole today, maybe with homemade wedges or something for dinner.. and maybe an omelette for lunch for me.

Feeling really good to be starting to regain control!

homeschoolhell · 05/05/2020 09:28

morning everyone, giant what do you tend to have on a FD?

My plan today is tea and water until a lunch of egg salad, then dinner is chargrilled chicken breast with green beans and a few strawberries.

hope your weigh in goes well upside
Nice to feel back in control isn't it mrd

good luck to any other fasters today Smile

homeschoolhell · 05/05/2020 09:29

forgot to say that should bring me in at 499 - oh, what could I 'spend' that extra 1 cal on Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2020 10:58

That's a nice healthy FD menu, Homeschooled
Good luck on your 1st FD

Well done, MrD
No snacking and water habits look firmly in place again
Is your plan to start FDs next week, once you feel you have the NFDs nailed ?

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 05/05/2020 11:20

yep bigchoc - exactly that. So far I haven't gained anything this week - with any luck I might lose a little before the fasting starts but we shall see.

Upsidedownrightnow · 05/05/2020 11:22

So i weighed myself this morning and i am 9.11.2 thats with one week on intermittent fasting and one week of 5:2 so that's 3lbs in 2 weeks, i prefer quick weightloss and im very impatient but i know doing it this way is more manageable and im so happy i weigh 9stone something and not 10stone something that made me very unhappy as its the heaviest i have been in over 3 years.

Anyway i think any loss or even maintenence during lockdown is a job well done Smile

homeschoolhell · 05/05/2020 11:27

that's a great sv upside well done.

My stomach is a bit off today so changing lunch to scrambled eggs and dry fried mushrooms as I don't fancy salad.... will see how i get on with that, hopefully it'll settle after I've eaten something Smile

Battenburg1978 · 05/05/2020 12:26

Hi all,

I’m just about to read this thread from the beginning but wanted to say hello 👋 I started the basics of 5:2 a few weeks ago as it seems to be the lifestyle plan I could follow most easily with minimum disruption to family meals/cooking extra things and so far it’s ok! I gave it 3 weeks before weighing myself so I didn’t freak out at the scales too much, but I can feel I’ve lost a little. I weighed yesterday and as suspected still have around 8kgs to lose, maybe a little more. I’ve also started taking apple cider vinegar this week and I must say it seemed to help with food cravings yesterday so I will keep that up.

I know it is different for everyone but how much weight per week is a good aim to lose? I want to take it steady so as to gently build the habits to
Hopefully last a lifetime so am thinking any weight loss should be a result!

downcherrytreelane · 05/05/2020 12:47

Afternoon all Smile

I am only on week two of 5:2 and on my third FD today. I wasn't really feeling it this morning as I didn't eat much yesterday and did an hour long workout last night so I nearly delayed my FD until tomorrow but I have pulled myself together and decided to get it over with today.

I am planning on eating nothing until dinner time as I find if I do eat lunch it makes me even hungrier. May I ask what are everyone's favourite easy meals that are under 500 calories?

Moanranger · 05/05/2020 12:48

Successful FD yesterday & not too hungry. I am sticking with a soup-based menu. Yesterday’s asparagus soup was v nice, & I got a nice piece of haddock for my evening meal. I did not break fast until 11:30, after my morning miles.
I intend to weigh every fortnight, as I reckon the calorie deficit is such that it will take two weeks to register any loss, but I am fine with that.
Good luck, Tuesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2020 13:14

Well done on your FD, Moan

Congratulations on your SV, upside

When you're in the 9 stone somethings, that's a decent rate of loss

The biggest hindrance to weight loss is people giving up because they followed most of the rules for a whole week .... and didn't immediately see ½ stone loss

The only people who see really massive losses quickly are those who have BMI 40+ AND have a huge mount of retained water - which is causing them high BP.
What they lose is a stone of water, which is v beneficial as it lowers the BP to safer levels.
However, it's not relevant to the average person trying to lose bodyfat

Welcome, Battenburg 🙂

If you keep to the 5:2 healthy guidelines, then you would be losing at a rate that is comfortable and safe for your individual body

The idea is just to maintain the FD deficit on NFDs,
which means you would be averaging TDEE over those 5 days - but no need to count for most folk

On average, the longterm loss works out at 1lb weekly
but someone heavier may safely automatically lose a few lb weekly for several weeks, or a hard loser / petite person may lose more slowly

Someone who was drinking a lot of alcohol or scoffing a lot of junk could also find weight loss is rapid if the 5:2 healthy habits changes their WOL - longterm

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2020 13:27

During this COVID crisis, you need your immune system working at full strength,
so - on any diet, not just fasting - don't force overly rapid loss

This is not the time for a VLCD, unless specifically advised by your doctor
That could be more risky than staying at BMI 40+

So generally no more than 2 FDs, no dieting on NFDs too
Intermittent fasting with healthy 5:2 habits may actually help your immune system

If you are mostly dieting for health, then you can strengthen your immune system by :

. keeping to NHS alcohol levels daily & weekly and
. cutting down sugary junk to one sensible portion on say 3 NFDs, with 4 days per week clear
. Lots of water (not coke etc) and masses of different veg
. getting plenty of sleep
. regular exercise - but don't exhaust yourself

OP posts:
TheBuriedGiant · 05/05/2020 16:43

Thanks for the tips BCF!
My FD isn’t going too badly so far, felt v hungry this afternoon so took ds out for a walk to get me away from the fridge!
Homeschoolhell, I generally have coffee in the morning, using a few calories for milk and then have soup around midday and nothing till teatime. This is my 2nd week doing the 5:2 and so far have tried to stick to fish or veggie sausages with lots of veg for tea. Tonight we have fishpie so will be over the calories a little I think but having lots of green veg to fill up on so hoping I’ll be around 600cals, will work it out now

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2020 17:54

That sounds a good plan for today, giant
600 calories is fine

OP posts:
homeschoolhell · 05/05/2020 19:03

Sounds good giant you've made me remember low cal chicken sausages for a fd 😁

All done here on 506 (I ended up with a bigger chicken breast) cup of tea later once ds in bed.

Thanks for all that info bigchoc it's good to know 1lb a week is a good rate of loss, good to manage expectations as I'm one of those people that expects a huge loss for just eating a salad one day 😂😂😂

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2020 19:16

Well done on an excellent FD, homeschool

Managing expectations is important - thinking longterm:

You will be putting in a lot of hard work to reach goal,
so you never want to have to lose this weight again

Hence you need to use the NFDs to develop new permanent habits for lifelong weight management
Yo-yo dieting is stressful and pointless, but is the usual result of short term thinking.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 05/05/2020 20:38

Evening all

Well done to today's fasters

Smashed my NFD today, drank plenty of water, stuck to my planned meals and got out for a walk too - happy with that. Kids are home and so I'm happy there too. Meals planned for this week with particular aim of getting some leftovers for the freezer for next week Wink and planning FD1 for Tuesday next week.

homeschoolhell · 05/05/2020 22:10

Yes bigchoc I do not want to yo-yo any longer, it is so pointless!

Well done mrd you sound firmly back in control 😁

Off for an early night...