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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18

998 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 10/03/2020 17:03

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:
BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3787860-bsd-and-fast800-support-thread-17

Previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
CaptainBrickbeard · 07/04/2020 20:44

I finally managed to push through a plateau and was really pleased this morning to have lost a couple of pounds after three weeks static BUT instead of building on that, I was absolutely starving all day today, had breakfast at 7.45 which I never do anymore and only just stopped eating now. The one habit I have managed to really stick to consistently has been the TRE so to blow that out of the water today is a bit inexplicable.

Also, in addition to eating all day long, I made cupcakes with the kids and ate one this afternoon. Ordinarily, when I’ve gone off plan so far since starting this diet at new year I have then compensated by fasting but I can’t fast on lockdown - I just have not got the willpower. I can’t get through home school on an empty stomach and there isn’t enough to distract me from my kitchen cupboards and the fridge.

So not a very good day today! I wish I knew what’s behind appetite fluctuations. Some days I can not be hungry or think about food very much but then a day like today will come out of nowhere and it feels like real hunger growling all day long. I recognise bored hunger and emotional hunger and I’m better at dealing with those, though not always. But today was actual hunger and I've not been active enough to justify it so I don’t know where it came from!

NathanNathan · 07/04/2020 21:20

I think the fact you can recognise bored hunger and emotional hunger and counter them is amazing @CaptainBrickbeard. It is one of my aims.

agteacht · 07/04/2020 21:32

I too am hungry today 😭

I had pancakes made from coconut flour for lunch (no breakfast) and although they were yum I think they just didn't fill me. I'm going to go back to eggs tomorrow.

I'm curious as to how much protein and fats everyone is having? I think maybe I need more fats and less protein. Looking back at the last few days I've had about 70-90g of protein each day and about 40g of fat. Was this covered in the book, I might have to re-read it. Not sure what other fats I'd add though.

CiorstanMI · 07/04/2020 21:36

Closing the kitchen at 878 calories and 43 carbs on day 30. Have discovered that a small spoonful of peanut butter works well when I just need a quick snack/treat.

bluepixie · 08/04/2020 09:16

Morning!
Not weighed myself since I got back into swing of it....(only 2 days in!) but feeling like I won’t fall back off this time!
Saying that ds didn’t finish his toast this am and I just couldn’t throw it esp atm so I ate that for brekkie. It was brown bread and still in carb level for the day .

Lunch is chicken salad
Dinner is trout again
Should be in at 800 and 30 carbs but I find I usually end up needing a baby bel / peanut butter or extra veg Most days so will prob end up on 850

agteacht · 08/04/2020 09:52

Morning all

Looking through week 2, I averaged a similar number of calories each day (over 900) but carbs reduced from 60g on average to 38g on average.

Having weighed in this morning I have lost a further 3.4lbs

Starting weight: 161.2lbs
Week 1 loss: 6.4lbs
Week 2 loss: 3.4lbs
Starting weight week 3: 151.4lbs (10st 11.4lbs)

So 9.8lb lost now in total 😊

I had set myself three little mini goals...
(1) Get properly into the 10s - now done!
(2) Back to my pre-preg state - 1.4lb to go
(3) Reach 10st7 - 4.4lb to go

Onwards to week three 👍

thenewaveragebear1983 · 08/04/2020 10:10

Well done @agteacht

@CaptainBrickbeard sorry to hear you'd had a difficult day. Hope today is better for you 

I'm now 10.4.6 (so another 1.5/2 ish off) so I'm pleased with that. 2 days sugar free now, and that always is the hardest habit to break (the daily biscuits "just because") so I am pleased with that.

@agteacht there is a protein calculator where it uses your current weight, I think it's about 0.8g protein per pound of body weight that's recommended. It is possible, although unlikely, to overeat protein (you'd have to eat loads daily, everyday) but there is an amount your body needs and like anything else, surplus is stored. Protein does raise blood sugar slightly too, so getting the balance right can be beneficial.

On a 'perfect day Halo' of 800 calories, I would be aiming for approx 50g carbs (200 cals)/ 25% ; and then splitting the rest between protein and fat (so eg. 35-40%)

If you are finding you need more calories, such as me when I'm running a lot, I would suggest still limiting carbs to 50g. Obviously then, the percentage of total calories from carbs is lower. I find on those days I lose weight as effectively, and sometimes better, than when I restrict calories, because the ratio of fat:protein: carbs is significantly altered with a larger percentage coming from fat.

If you take my day yesterday as an example: I burned (according to Fitbit) 2800 calories (I did 20k steps), so if I was to do this regularly 800 simply wouldn't be enough for me. I think because I have fairly low body fat now (a fair amount of my weight is muscle) I do go into 'starvation mode' which manifests itself as that frantic 'got to eat constantly ' feeling for a few days. However, if I simply increase all my food intake I would then regain, however if i increase my calories in the form of fat and protein but kept the carbs low I can then maintain or even still lose.

OP posts:
whensmynexthol1day · 08/04/2020 10:11

Hi everyone. Been lurking for a while so thought I'd join you properly.

Halfway through week 5 now and lost 5.1kg so far - 3 of those in week 1! Had a blip in Week 3 where I gained 0.7kg - but due to a bit of a blowout at the weekend so at least explained.

I've lost 0.5kg since Monday so hoping that I can sustain a 1kg per week loss for a while.
Did anyone find they were able to sustain this even as they got closer to goal?

I started at 74.5 and want to get to 57.5kg which would be lighter than my adult lowest weight but I was a lot fitter and more muscly then so want to be a bit lighter to compensate!

I need to start doing some exercise but currently wfh 7-1 and then on shift with the kids until bedtime so my energy levels are pretty low! Grin

thenewaveragebear1983 · 08/04/2020 10:13

Sorry protein is 0.8g per kilogram or around 0.3-0.4 g per pound of body weight

OP posts:
bluepixie · 08/04/2020 10:56

Well done @agteacht that’s similar to my first 2 weeks too (8 off for me) . Then it was half way through third week I started misbehaving which went on for a week and I put some of it back on.
But back on it now!
My cold is gone so hopefully start hit again tonight

NathanNathan · 08/04/2020 11:48

That's really useful @agteacht to hear what your calories vs carbs were when you're having such success, I'm not doing so well at the moment and was going to ask if anyone had a view on that - so thank you!

agteacht · 08/04/2020 12:02

@thenewaveragebear1983 congrats on kicking away the sugar.

What you say makes total sense about upping calories but keeping carbs at 50g. I think that's the trick long term. I am going to do some reading about fats and protein today and will look at a protein calculator as you say. Back of fag packet would suggest I need about 60g protein but I am currently getting more than that. I think key for me will be to experiment across these macros and see what works sustainably.

agteacht · 08/04/2020 12:03

@whensmynexthol1day congrats on the 5kg loss!

@Cream123 I can see how around now I could easily start caving 😬
Fingers crossed. Sounds like you're back in the zone now though! And glad your cold is gone

agteacht · 08/04/2020 12:07

Hey @NathanNathan yea I haven't really managed the 800 yet. I have ranged from 743 to 1314! Though both were a one off. Across the two weeks I've averaged at 971 cals and 49g carbs, though I think keeping the carbs lower this week has helped get a decent loss. For week 3 I'm going to stay around the same calories (although I do aim for 800 every day I just don't make it!) and I think around 45g carbs which is up a bit from the 38g in week 2. I have lots I'm learning though so it's a moving feat!

bluepixie · 08/04/2020 17:37

Closed kitchen at 950 and 60 carbs
That bread made me go over and then only veg we have in was peas In freezer which are high carb! But it’s still no bad
Got a delivery tmrw so least that’s sorted

CiorstanMI · 08/04/2020 19:59

Day 31 and closing the kitchen at 830 calories and 47g carbs. Really busy at work at the moment but at least it stops me thinking about food (every cloud ...).

Well done @agteacht, you are storming ahead.

agteacht · 08/04/2020 23:46

Good work both!

Anyone ever tried making low carb bread??

Going to try this recipe by Tom Kerridge tomorrow. Adapting it to have less almonds as I don't have enough and I make it to be 130cals and 1.8g carbs a slice. I'll report back!

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18
thenewaveragebear1983 · 09/04/2020 08:31

Morning everyone

@agteacht I've never made those bread replacement things but I have seen lots of recipes, report back please!

I am a little half pound up today because yesterday I had to take one for the team; it was DD's special trip to London (cancelled obvs) so we had pizza and profiteroles and wine. It's the first time in all this corona madness where I've felt genuinely sad for one of my kids (because quite frankly, they are incredibly lucky really and we don't forget that) but this was her Christmas treat and she had been so excited.

Anyway, onwards! Thursday- I am going out for a run very shortly. I would really like to fast longer today but I get coerced into lunch every day and it's hard to fast when the kids are here because they eat all the damn time. But I will try. Then dinner will be a salmon fillet with stir fry veg.

I made myself a little yoga zone in my garden yesterday and did my yoga through YouTube on my phone through headphones. It didn't matter that I couldn't see the screen really so I am definitely going to try and do the daily 30 again. I felt so good when I was doing it regularly.

Have a great day y'all.

OP posts:
bluepixie · 09/04/2020 10:11

Hey guys!

No not tried low carb bread to make buy a brand so when I really crave it. It’s 3G per slice which isn’t bad and tastes nice!

Yoghurt berries and coffee so far
Feta and olive salad for lunch
Prawn stir fry dinner
Hoping to be in at 850 and 33 carbs

Not weighed yet as hoping I’ll be in tens when I weigh on Sunday! I am having a date night in on Sunday with wine and a home made curry (and pudding!) but rather than this spiralling our of control into a week of bingeing it’s staying at one day!!!!

If I’m honest the cornoa stuff has made me realise being bmi 25 is not ok! I know risk is if bmi is higher but it’s not great bordering on overweight my whole life. I’ve def has a kick up my bum not just for vanity but to improve my long life health for myself ds and dh. I’m hoping I will stick it it this time!

agteacht · 09/04/2020 15:33

@thenewaveragebear1983 your DDs little treat sounds fab and also well deserved. Hopefully you can rearrange your trip soon enough...

Ooh @Cream123 what brand do you buy?

Attacking a pic of what's left of the bread after DH snaffled some. It was really nice. Possibly more of a cake but had a slice with scrambled egg for lunch and was yum. I'll definitely make it again!

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18
bluepixie · 09/04/2020 16:02

Oh nice!!! It’s called livlife its nice!!!

NathanNathan · 09/04/2020 16:28

agteacht looks great! Nice work.

I have largely re read the book again. Has been really helpful in adjusting my approach, I've realised again how important the blood sugar levels and insulin resistance is to the whole approach, so I'm hoping that will help me get a better result this week.

agteacht · 09/04/2020 20:05

Oh will look up that bread @Cream123

Sounds really positive @NathanNathan
For the same reason I am reading a book called the Obesity Code. Really good. Don't know if anyone's read it but I would recommend it.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 09/04/2020 21:33

@agteacht I'd agree, the obesity code is very good and explains the science brilliantly. Look up Jason fung on YouTube as well he does some lectures and q&a

OP posts:
agteacht · 09/04/2020 22:42

Oh fab thanks @thenewaveragebear1983

Bought lindt 90% this evening in the search for low carb chocolate. Quite liked it if bitter. Any other recommendations?