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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2020 10:57

aber I'm chuckling, thinking of your poor DH in a few years !
You might be lucky, as I was though - seems no pattern to who sails though with no HRT and hardly any symptoms vs who gets hammered
The little info available suggests looking at how it went for your mum, gran, aunts etc

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 11/02/2020 11:15

I'm also fasting today after a weekend of party food. It was my DD's first birthday yesterday so I had made a cake, my sister was visiting and had friends over which meant that I didn't really check what I was eating. I don't think I went too far but you never know if you don't keep a count.

Anyway good luck Tuesday fasters.

harriethoyle · 11/02/2020 12:11

We're on top of a hill @BigChocFrenzy so if we flood something is VERY wrong! But we were cut off by the flood water and the parapet of our bridge collapsed...

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
OohMrDarcy · 11/02/2020 13:17

Well guessed BigChoc - I'm here!

Have had a subway salad for lunch and some soup when I get home as I'm out and about today.

Waspie · 11/02/2020 17:16

I'm supposed to be doing my second fast day tomorrow. I went out at lunchtime and bought roast chicken and more salad (taking BigChocs advice about increasing my protein).

Ideally I'd leave it longer than one day between FDs but Wednesday suits me well as I'm really busy from 5pm - 9pm so hopefully I wont notice the lack of food!

I hope the flood water subsides soon harriet Flowers

80skid · 11/02/2020 17:28

What does everyone think of no eat FDs? I've had milk in my coffee during the day, which I tend to allow around 50 calories for. I'm not particularly hungry. Should I eat out of habit or go with it?

ListeningQuietly · 11/02/2020 17:35

80skid
You need to eat your 500 calories - even if you have it all in one meal.
Skipping food completely for a day and half is not sustainable.

Remember, you'll be doing this for the rest of your life - weight loss is just a side effect.
The fasting has real long term benefits.

If nothing else, have a decent portion of something with loads of micronutrients so that you do not wake up hungry in the morning and then eat in a non mindful manner.

Ohyesiam · 11/02/2020 17:51

@aberjenagain the perfect triad in my life at the moment is peri meno, teenage kids and ageing parentsConfused. On a good week it all works like clockwork, on a bad week it’s more like that John Cleese film Clockwork Grin.

@harriethoyle the wine was v good! It has an odd name, 119 Crimes I think, ( or maybe 109?) it has a grainy sepia photo on the label , was Australian and from the Coop apparently ( who knew?).
Glad your property is not affected by flooding.

Remember, you'll be doing this for the rest of your life - weight loss is just a side effect.
The fasting has real long term benefits
This is very clear and inspiring, thanks Listening Quietly

moonlight1705 · 11/02/2020 18:11

ohyeah friends brought that wine 19 Crimes over for New Year and it was lovely. You can download an app and hover over the label on the bottle and it brings it to life with stories about the crimes.

Doing well so far, going to have dinner later which should take me to 604.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2020 18:50

Good luck, moon, MrD
Not long to go now

That 2nd photo looks quite scary, Harriet
< shudders >

Sounds a good menu, Waspie
See how you do with only one day between FDs; you can always tweak your system for next week, if need be.

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 11/02/2020 19:14

Ohyesiam
I started fasting in 2012
I've been within 6kg of target weight ever since
at the moment I'm 3kg away
as a weight management system that allows me to eat delicious food while staying a healthy size, 5:2 is unbeatable.

harriethoyle · 11/02/2020 19:30

Definitely going to track that wine down @Ohyesiam

Kitchen closing on 535 calories. Grin

harriethoyle · 11/02/2020 19:31

Yeah it was a bit @BigChocFrenzy! All safe though

OohMrDarcy · 11/02/2020 19:57

Kitchen closing on around 650 today which is perfect as I'm doing a b2b tomorrow Shock have planned it well so hopefully it will be fine... eek!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2020 20:04

Well done, Harriet, MrD
and good luck on your b2b, MrD - it's only about your 2nd, but sounds well planned, as you usually are

I love a v low calorie alcohol-free wine - sweet, white & fizzy Blush - called LightLive
(I don't know if its just in Germany)
I am a very light & occasional wine drinker, but I found I genuinely prefer this to alcohol
Just grape juice processed with fizzy water and it's only 180 cals for a 750ml bottle

OP posts:
80skid · 11/02/2020 20:57

Thanks @Listening, also thanks for the much needed reminder this is how I eat now and not a diet Grin

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 11/02/2020 22:00

Hi everyone

Well done waspie on getting started.

I’ve just finished by Mon/Tues B2B and found it really quite OK.

Of all the tips on here I absolutely swear by the planning. This is really NOT like me - I am not super organised - but on Sunday evening I had the fridge ready with absolutely everything including bottles of water, milk rations, lunch boxes, soup ready to heat.

I simply did not allow myself to even look at / consider any other food for 48 hours. And for me, that worked really well.

Good luck to Wednesdayers. I am looking forward to a hot cross bun for breakfast tomorrow Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2020 22:13

Well done on your b2b, Hands
Yep, planning is key and you nailed that
Also, eating what you planned and no detours

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 12/02/2020 08:11

Morning all,

Checking in for day 2 of b2b - youbare right bigchoc that it's only my second. If memory serves correctly the first didn't go so well, but feeling much more confident about it this time so fingers crossed!

Beef casserole in the slow cooker for tonight and I'm planning a small lunch to help me get through if needed as well, all within cals.

Whattodowithaminute · 12/02/2020 08:19

Well done hands, MrD, harriet, moon and anyone else who fasted yesterday.
harriet that flood damage looks significant hope you can get it sorted quickly.
listening that is a great reminder about this as a long term plan-it makes me see the need to plan and enjoy not endure the FD.
FD here today for me, soup for lunch and salmon salad for dinner. Good luck other Wednesday gang.

Waspie · 12/02/2020 09:38

Morning All. DP and I spoke last night and have decided to fast tomorrow rather than today. So we'll have a late supper with lots of protein to set us up for tomorrow.

"Remember, you'll be doing this for the rest of your life - weight loss is just a side effect. The fasting has real long term benefits" Thanks ListeningQuietly this is really important. Before I started reading all of the links posted by BigChoc I hadn't really appreciated this but the more widely I read the more this is hitting home Smile

Best of luck to those fasting today, especially those doing B2B.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2020 11:11

Good luck on your b2b, MrD
& to What and any other Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 12/02/2020 17:50

Kitchen closed on 520-hard going and I’ve been cold all day... how was it for you MrD

OohMrDarcy · 12/02/2020 18:03

Kitchen closed on 659 - I did it!

Well done whattodo

Whattodowithaminute · 12/02/2020 18:15

Great work MrD I hope the scales are kind to you tomorrow as a reward!!