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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
WineGummyBear · 12/02/2020 19:15

Well done team. Good efforts today.

Really struggled to get into it this week. My NFDs have been disastrous lately. Finally did FD today. It's been my least painful yet.

Really enjoyed my tea. Walnut, Parmesan and baby spinach salad with drizzle of Pizza Express dressing accompanied by a slither of quiche.

Onwards!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2020 19:51

Great b2b, MrD right on the nose

Well done, on your FDs, What, Gummy
You both did really well on tough days

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 12/02/2020 20:12

Thanks whattodo - I'm hoping so too... if they aren't I'll have to concede ANOTHER plateau ... fingers crossed all is good though!

I hope the same for anyone else weighing in!

Well done yummy, keep going and try to make little changes on the NFD... the habits will change gradually

Bigchoc- what have you got planned for the rest of your lovely retired week?

alwaysanauntie · 12/02/2020 21:26

Hi everyone, I did 5:2 a few years ago and lost 3 to 4 stones. Unfortunately I slipped a disc, moved jobs which meant driving to work & longer, more stressful hours & put 2 stone back on Sad.

So, here I am, back again for some much needed support & a re-set of what's healthy (both portion size & content) to eat & drink now I've hit 40, before it gets even harder!

First mini goal is to lose a stone by Easter weekend, it's a bit ambitious but I think 1.5 pounds a week should be do-able. So far this week I've had 3 x 1200-1300 cal days to get back into the swing, will have a go at fasting tomorrow as super-busy at work. Good luck everyone! Xx

OohMrDarcy · 12/02/2020 21:27

Welcome Auntie, sounds like you know the drill, and got back before all the weight caught up so I'm sure you'll get back into good habits quickly

harriethoyle · 12/02/2020 21:40

Well done @Whattodowithaminute and @oohMrDarcy - excellent fasting!

anyone with me tomorrow? Old school 500 cal fast day 👊

SydneyCarton · 12/02/2020 21:59

Bit of a change of plan from my usual Wednesday fast, as we had an unexpected trip to A&E with DS and a bumped head this morning. All fine, but by the time we got out it was too late to go into work, so I ended up working from home instead.

I’m never good with fasting at home, it’s much easier at work away from the food cupboards. On the positive side, I’d already skipped breakfast in anticipation of a FD, so I’ve come in at 1300 calories, which is more than 300 under TDEE. Weigh in tomorrow and hopefully back to 10 st exactly after last week’s gain. Well done on the fasting MrD, what and Gummy 😁👍🏻

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 13/02/2020 00:15

Welcome Auntie.

Sydney - hope all ok after A&E. 1300 is a good mini! Let us know how the weigh in goes.

Whattodowithaminute · 13/02/2020 06:54

Hope all is ok with DS sydney
Welcome back auntie sounds like you’ve caught your gain just in time and will soon get back into the swing of things again. Good luck.

STS for me back to where I was 2 weeks ago so have lost the gain of last week. We are heading away to FILs for next week-so will try and stay within TDEE daily but there will be wine and cheese aplenty so will be a test!
Good luck Thursday fasters...

moonlight1705 · 13/02/2020 07:17

I'm on a FD today too harriet although with the weather I feel like eating more for some reason.

auntie a slipped disc is why I put on so much too, it was 5 years ago and I ended up putting on 4 stone which never shifted. Horrible experience so Flowers for you

OohMrDarcy · 13/02/2020 09:03

Morning all

sydney - hope DS is ok

whattodo - well done on losing the gain

Harriet and moonlight - good luck for FDs

and to those talking of back issues, a recurring bulging disc is how I first started gaining weight many years ago!

Well. I am this morning officially the mother of a teenager Shock and yes, this also means I finished my b2b yesterday baking a chocolate cake!

Scales this morning back in the right direction, huzzah - my gain is gone plus 1.2lb so I'm happy with that. Can fit in 2 more FDs before I head to spain so will aim to nail those too.

SydneyCarton · 13/02/2020 09:18

DS is fine, thank you, currently leaping off the sofa with his sister which I should really put a stop to if I don’t want a repeat of yesterday Hmm

10.0.2 this morning, so same as what, back where I was two weeks ago despite the slight wobble this week. Well done on the loss MrD and congratulations on your teenager!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2020 09:45

Welcome Auntie 🙂

Good luck, Harriet, moon and any other Thursday fasters

OP posts:
Waspie · 13/02/2020 10:39

Morning All,
I'm fasting today too - one back coffee and two large glasses of water so far! Planning tuna and popcorn for lunch and chicken & hard boiled egg salad for dinner.

I've had a reasonable first few days - I started on Saturday and both days of the weekend I was well within TDEE, Monday FD = 300 calories, Tuesday, not so great, blew TDEE by about 50 calories. Wednesday well within TDEE and fasting again today. I'm not going to weigh myself until Saturday.

Hi Auntie I'm new this week too - good luck! I put on a load of weight after a back operation 5 years ago. It seems to be a common reason for weight gain.

My first small victory is March 17th - I'm getting civilly partnered. Afterwards we're going out to lunch with our friends/witnesses at a Michelin starred restaurant where I plan to blow my TDEE in one meal Grin but I have to have lost a few kilos (hoping for 5 but realistically targetting 3.5) by then.

Good luck today Thursday fasters!

badger82 · 13/02/2020 18:17

Disastrous attempt at FD today. Started strong but went wrong around midday and since then just been a human dustbin. Why oh why? I'm so annoyed with myself and it's a constant inner battle - setting goals for the day, failing, feeling crap. On repeat. Is there some psychological problem here? I've got 6-7kg to lose but it feels impossible

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2020 18:30

Congratulations & best wishes for your civil partnership next month, Waspie 💐
A Michelin restaurant with your best mates should be a meal to remember forever

How's your FD going today ?

badger Don't beat yourself up; it happens to us all sometimes

However, think if there is / are trigger(s) that send you off plan
e.g. particular types of food, or nibbling while on screens, or with certain people, or boredom etc

Try black coffee for breakfast
Maybe you need to change your meal timing, e.g. try just eating supper, or if you already did that, then split your cals between lunch & supper

Then move on, decide on your next FD and plan the menu the day before

  • and don't eat or drink anything not on that menu

If you are aiming for 500, maybe try 800 cal FDs instead for a few weeks
Or try the system of 3 weekly miniFDs (so no junk or booze) e.g. 800-1000 cals Mon+Wed+Fri which loses about the same as standard 5:2

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 13/02/2020 18:39

badger
Should have fasted today
but then that leftover chimichanga fell out of the fridge and into my mouth at lunchtime
so I'm counting it as deferred
and having Eggs Alpine for supper Grin

badger82 · 13/02/2020 19:07

Thanks @bigchoc I think I'll revert to just eating supper. It's hard but I can't have a repeat of today it's ridiculous. My trigger appears to be food 🤣 which is slightly problematic. I'm bored and get a bit frustrated in the house with the little ones after school. So I eat for entertainment and that thing it does to your brain. But then feel rubbish and cross. Vicious cycle.

moonlight1705 · 13/02/2020 20:23

Congrats Waspie on your partnership, how exciting! Smile hope you've got a killer outfit.

I don't know if I have had a good or bad FD, was meant to have soup for lunch but had a meeting over lunchtime. Ended up eating my apple and two biscuits but nothing else until my normal FD dinner. So goodness how many extra calories those biscuits were but think I've mitigated.

harriethoyle · 13/02/2020 20:23

@badger82 I find FDs really difficult when I'm at home so I really sympathise when you're trapped in the house. I generally only fast successfully on a busy work day!

Kitchen closed on 547. Marginally high but I'll take it. Fingers crossed for a nice pre weekend SV tomorrow morning!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2020 21:57

Well done on your FD, Harriet

You've nailed your FD as well moon
Sometimes FDs don't go to plan, but you got back on track again

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 14/02/2020 07:40

Another .6kg off which makes 5.1kg in the last month and 2.6kg to goal!!

Celebrating with coffee and toast for breakfast Grin

EssentialHummus · 14/02/2020 07:55

Super harriet, well done!

Waspie · 14/02/2020 09:42

Well done harriet!

Thanks all Smile I am particularly looking forward to the lunch! Wink
No killer dress for this moonlight but we are planning a party in the summer so perhaps I'll go for one then (when I've lost some ballast)

I did well yesterday - 350 calories. I think the fact that DP and I are doing it together is really helpful, plus the fact that's it's the first week so I'm still keen and eager.

I didn't feel as horribly empty this morning as I did on Tuesday. I've had a bagel and coffee for breakfast. Hopefully I'll keep within TDEE today.

Good luck to the Friday fasters Flowers

badger82 · 14/02/2020 11:20

That's amazing @harriet
I sts which given my eating habits this week is actually a win. Next FDs will be better am determined

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