Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2020 08:35

Congratulations on your SV and mini-goal, moonlight
Good progress
Enjoy your swish eyebrows !

OP posts:
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 08/02/2020 11:00

Hi all - happy weekends. Don’t know if we have any Saturday fasters but good luck if so and for everyone else - enjoy.

I’m going for a moderate breakfast (eggs and avo) and lunch so I can have some wine and crisps tonight! Smile

sparkle789 · 08/02/2020 14:55

I’ve been really struggling. My mental health hasn’t been great and the first the to go wrong it always food. Even though I know the better I eat the better I’ll feel as soon as I hit a low patch it all goes out the window. I’m the bloody queen of self sabotage! Coupled with the fact I’m at the lowest weight I ever manage on a diet before it all goes back on I’m feeling very negative. I’ve been trying to get inspired to get back on this wol but it’s not worked so far. However I have just ordered our food shop for next week so hopefully that will give me a good start for feeling organised. I’m going to fast on Monday and try and get my head back in it.
Week done to everyone who’s been fasting.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2020 15:27

sparkle
Have you tried keeping a mood and food diary
so track which things trigger you feeling down,
track which foods you eat and feel more down
and which foods you eat that actually DO cheer you up ....
as once you see the pattern of your MH you might be able to start managing how food fits into it
to make yourself feel stronger not weaker.
Might not work, but worth a try ?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2020 16:59

ARe you able to get some help for your MH, Sparkle
e.g. GP ?

I suggest you decide on a series of minigoal: e.g. each 5 lb
and a series of milestones, such as dropping down into the next stone

Try to focus on your next mini-goal and also think up a non-food reward to look forward to
e.g. eyebrows / nails / new music

It may also help if you take a short walk outside - in daylight - on as many days as you can manage

Good luck on Monday
Plan your FD menu in advance this weekend, to make life easier on Monday:
plan meals around protein, with plenty of veg

Tonight and tomorrow, give yourself some TLC with plenty of sleep and some nutritious meals

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 09/02/2020 14:05

Wishing you well sparkle.

I'm fasting today - just me then? Was planning to fast tomorrow but had a pleasantly distracted morning followed by a light lunch, with plans for the afternoon, so it will hopefully be an easy one. I'm off to the cinema in a bit while DH wrangles the toddler.

sparkle789 · 09/02/2020 15:16

Listening- I’d not thought of that but it’s a good idea I will give it a try.

Big choc - I’m on ads and on the whole I’m ok. It’s just one of those times where I have a lot going on in my personal life. I know it’ll pass but it’s hard while I’m in a blip.

I appreciate the replies. I am fasting today. I wasn’t going to eat until 6 but I was starting to feel a bit light headed so I’ve eaten my meal for the day which came in at 432 calories. I’ll try not to have anything else but if I do I’ll just make it a mini fast day. It’s still a positive step.

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2020 15:52

Sparkle
The joy of this Way Of Eating
is that its a lifelong change and so a fast day deferred is no great shakes
and every day where you eat mindfully - even if its up to your TDEE - is still a step in the right direction.

www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/8-steps-to-mindful-eating
is worth a quick look

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2020 16:53

Good luck, Hummus, Sparkle

Sparkle FD or miniFD is fine, whatever you can manage

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 09/02/2020 17:14

Evening all

Bit of a late checking but I completed my first ever weekend FD today! Kitchen just closed on 493. And all whilst making fondant "Friends" themed decorations for my daughters birthday cake!

Moonlight - congrats on the SV and enjoy your fancy eyebrows reward!

Sparkle - sorry to hear you are feeling down, well done for attempting a FD anyway, how has it gone? I'd focus on just hour by hour if you are feeling low. As an emotional eater that would have helped me during crap times.

How has your FD gone hummus ?

So the tricky time is upon me. In the next 9 days its both mine and my daughters birthdays (39 for me, 13 for her) and then I go for my trip to Spain. I've just sat and planned 4 FDs that I can fit in before I go away and the meals in that time to enable me to enjoy the special times but stay on track and focussed.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2020 19:01

Well done on your 1st WE FD, MrD
Now you know that's another option you can do

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 09/02/2020 19:50

Well done mrd. How’s it going there sparkle?

V easy fd here - toddler play date in the morning, then a cinema outing and solo coffee in the afternoon so not much time to think about food. Stir fry then soup and hummus sandwich here, with two coffees.

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 09/02/2020 21:15

Very impressed by weekend FDs. Cinema for me always seems to = sweets/choc.

hummus - I love that you actually did eat hummus today. Your name is clearly apt!

I’m all prepped for tomorrow. Have made a carrot and coriander soup - I don’t calorie count it religiously but it’s all veg and stock with a handful of lentils - for lunch and have got Barenaked noodles and a tomato / chilli sauce for dinner with a little salad of radishes and green beans.

Then exactly the same on Tuesday.

I am portioned up and ready to go. I will not deviate!! Smile

night all

EssentialHummus · 09/02/2020 21:35

I do eat quite a lot of hummus hands Grin

Good luck tomorrow; that all sounds delicious.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2020 22:45

Well done Hummus
I'm glad you do what it says on your tin Grin

Great prepping, Hands
You sound very positive

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 10/02/2020 06:45

Checking in for a Monday FD-made no healthy choices at all last week or at the weekend so have some catching up to do Blush DH is away this week though so it will be no alcohol, early nights and healthy eating for the next few days as the recovery plan... good luck all
Monday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2020 08:18

Good luck, WHat, Hands and any other Monday fasters

OP posts:
Waspie · 10/02/2020 10:23

I'm fasting for the first time today. I have a target weight loss of 14 kilos and the My Fitness Pal app says 1200 calories a day to lose 0.8KG per week. I've done this over the weekend and today I'm fasting. I'm not sure 5 x 1200 plus 2 x 500 calories a week is sustainable longer term but I think if I don't lose any weight in the first couple of weeks/month I will not be motivated to continue.

I'm not sure what to expect really so I have no plan at all! I've got lots of cucumber, mushrooms and red pepper to snack on, plus popcorn and cup-a-soup for lunch. I've not really thought about evening meals though.

DP and I are doing it together so we can support each other which is something.

I've warned DS that I may be grouchy this evening and to just ignore me Smile

EssentialHummus · 10/02/2020 10:38

Welcome wasp. I’m not an expert but I imagine that if you can avoid snacking and have the peppers etc as part of a meal you’ll lose faster - bigchoc has a zingy graph Wink.

Waspie · 10/02/2020 10:45

Hi Hummus thanks. Oooh I love a good graph Grin

Ah okay, so better to eat a few small meals than a constant graze approach? So far today I've had a litre of water and two black coffees because I figured that caffeine withdrawal on top of fasting would make me even more grumpy!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2020 10:59

Welcome, Waspie 🙂
Yep, most important tip is No snacking or grazing, on FDs & NFDs
Just eat meals, nothing between

On FDs, most folk just have black coffee for breakfast, then divide their 500 calories between lunch and dinner, or just dinner

No, don't do 1200 on NFDs; it's not very sustainable and it's not 5:2
On 5:2, the "diet days" are the FDs; the 5 NFDs are "maintenance days"

The mfp 1200 is only for standard daily diets, NOT 5:2

Many folk lose on 5:2 without counting NFD calories, but if you want a rough calorie target, aim for TDEE and use Mosely's TDEE Calc
(not the TDEE calc in mfp or elsewhere)

He says that exercisers should calculate with one activity level lower than they think they do.

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 10/02/2020 11:00

See what works for you, but no breakfast (or just coffee, like you’re doing), then lunch and dinner, is a popular approach.

EssentialHummus · 10/02/2020 11:01

X-posted Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2020 11:02

It's tough enough getting used to fasting without trying to diet on the NFDs as well

  • that's a common cause for crashing out in the first couple of weeks
OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 10/02/2020 12:23

Hopped on the scales this morning - another .5kg down (not bad for a Monday as I ate quite a lot yesterday)
Feeling motivated again even though this weather is grim.