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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
noseovertail · 30/03/2020 09:57

morning everyone

Re-joining this in the hope I can get on top of my weight gain :( I'm struggling with isolation and working from home and schooling DS, and when I'm stressed I eat and drink way too much. Its a vicious circle though as it's just making me even more unhappy and being sad also makes me overeat :( (doh!)

So today I am restarting 5:2, going to fast tomorrow and friday, I'm also going to take advantage of the many you tube exercise videos that have surfaced and attempt to do these everyday, but I will aim for a couple of times this week to get me back into it!

Hope others are managing well in these strange times, stay safe all Smile

moonlight1705 · 30/03/2020 10:28

I'm doing a mini today as I have the exact same habit nose isolation is making me want to eat. We've agreed no chocolate in the house until Easter.

How are you doing in full isolation mrd? In some ways I wish my DD was older as she needs us to play with her all the time but then I see the stress that everyone is having with schooling kids and think we're lucky that a wooden drum provides hours of entertainment.

emcla · 30/03/2020 11:02

Im fasting today. Good luck everyone

Waspie · 30/03/2020 11:44

I'm fasting today too - Good luck Monday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2020 12:58

That's good you are fighting fit again, MrD
Maybe a gentle start with Joe Wicks ? - best not to try Shred for a couple of weeks

Welcome back, nose and good luck
I think we all need a routine atm,
or too easy to wake up like the Vicar of Dibley under a mountain of sweet wrappers

Good luck today, moonlight, emcla, Waspie
Remember to post, if tempting nibbles keep whispering in your ears

< winces with moonlight's head over MiniMoonlight's drum >

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2020 13:01

Illustrates the danger of too much time on your hands 😂
Don't stick anything up your body orifices that doesn't belong ....

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/30/astrophysicist-gets-magnets-stuck-up-nose-while-inventing-coronavirus-device" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/30/astrophysicist-gets-magnets-stuck-up-nose-while-inventing-coronavirus-device

An Australian astrophysicist has been admitted to hospital after getting four magnets stuck up his nose
in an attempt to invent a device that stops people touching their faces during the coronavirus outbreak.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/03/2020 14:35

Loving that story BigChoc - goes to show the most intelligent often have little common sense! Grin

Moonlight - its mostly fine tbh. My DD has a full timetable of lessons from school so that keeps her occupied (though she has dyslexia so I often have to check / get involved). DS is 10 and his timetable is... flexible shall we say! I'm making him do some spellings / maths / reading / writing / homework every day but not too worried what it is. He finds learning easy so I am confident he will catch up anything relatively quickly when normality returns! Using the opportunity to help DD with her spellings (from DS' word list!) which is giving her a confidence boost.

Luckily at work we are all in the same boat (WFH with kids to teach) so just doing what we can and checking in on each other regularly. Main issue is not defaulting to too much screentime!

BigChoc - Joe Wicks is doing PE daily in this house (for all who are well enough anyway - only did 2 days last week)

badger82 · 30/03/2020 16:59

Fast day going well so far. Final straight now until dinner - got a virtual PT session soon too

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2020 17:14

That PT session is an excellent idea, badger
Let us know how you get on

OP posts:
emcla · 30/03/2020 20:14

Nearly there everyone. Off for a nice cup of tea and to chill. Trying to focus on a book but struggling with the whole covid thing. Well done everyone.

moonlight1705 · 30/03/2020 22:02

My mini was good but ended up just over at 1054 calories. I will be doing one again tomorrow.

Hope it went well for you all.

badger82 · 30/03/2020 22:17

Made it! Had a few crackers before PT but kitchen closed on 900ish so a good first day back. Another one Thursday. Will eat up to TDEE tomorrow and Weds.
hope everyone's ok!

noseovertail · 31/03/2020 09:09

well done everyone, i managed a whole day under TDEE (about 130cals) and no alcohol / snacks - yay me :) :) :)

Today is a whole other matter, FD#1 - wish me luck! Who else is fasting today??

moonlight1705 · 31/03/2020 09:24

I'm joining you today nose and trying to make it a proper fast day rather than a mini.

It has already been successful as managed to get to the supermarket early and buy a pack of toilet rolls!!! Grin

Got some nice homemade chicken stock in the fridge so will make a chicken noodle soup for lunch and then fishcakes for dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2020 10:26

Well done, badger
You nailed a tough one

That's fine, moonlight
54 calories is just a loud fart nothing between friends Grin

Good for you on the fast, emcla

For those naturally feeling stressed, I recommend avoiding the AIBU and Coronavirus boards completely and just checking news headlines every day or two in case of important info
Of course checking in with 5:2 to give & receive support Smile

Self-care is the priority, even if you look after others - put on your own oxygen mask first
Plan a daily walk and a few times per week say a cheerful dance video or Joe WIcks
Bouncy music during the day and then chill with your fav boxsets & Kindle books

Well done on a good habits NFD, nose

Good luck today, nose, moonlight and any other fasters

Yay for the early bird loo rolls, Moonlight these days counts as an NSV !Grin

OP posts:
noseovertail · 31/03/2020 11:36

thanks bcf good advice.... I just did Joe Wicks work out, ouch!!!!

Not sure what is on the menu today, probably an egg salad for lunch then maybe chicken and veg for dinner - mmmmm. I'm aiming for 600cals today to ease myself back into fasting, that should be okay shouldn't it??

Well done on bagging some loo rolls moon I still can't believe that people are stockpiling them! We need a trip out to replenish our stocks soon, I'm dreading it

emcla · 31/03/2020 12:12

Good luck to anyone fasting today. I found last week ( my first week back fasting) quite difficult but back on track now. Drinking lots of water definitely helps.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2020 12:29

That's good you are back in the fasting swing, emcla
It aso adds structure to this time

Sounds a sensible plan for today, moonlight

OP posts:
Waspie · 31/03/2020 16:26

Well done moonlight, badger and emcla

Hope today is going well nose and other Tuesday fasters and minis!

I'm glad you are feeling a little better MrD

My FD was good yesterday although I accidentally ate a fruit pastille which added 20 unnecessary calories! DS and I were watching a movie and he was munching through them and I just automatically reached over and swiped one - I honestly didn't even think until I was already chewed it - oops. I do have a very soft spot for fruit pastilles though Grin

noseovertail · 31/03/2020 18:20

How are you getting on moon?

Kitchen closed here on 609 cals 😃 coffee or tea later and just water inbetween.... I've done nothing but wee today, I forgot how much I wee when I'm doing this correctly.

waspie well done only snaffling 1, it's so easy to eat mindlessly isn't it!

Glad you are better mrd, apologies, I've not read the thread, was it covid 19?

Dh went shopping, he even bought me some sugar free jellies for my fds 😍

Hope everyone else is having a good day....

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2020 18:50

Well done yesterday, Waspie
At least you didn't stick the fruit pastels up your nose - you've more sense than that Aussie astrophysicist upthread !

Well done on an excellent FD today, nose
Yep, drinking and weeing a lot indicate good progress
At least one thing is easier when stuck indoors

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 31/03/2020 18:56

Well done nose I am similar to you and will end up on 645 by the time I've had dinner.

waspie fruit Pastilles were the thing that kept me going through first trimester tiredness. I mainline the red and black ones on my drive to and from work. Bit sad not to have them now but know I would just demolish the whole pack.

noseovertail · 31/03/2020 20:15

Thanks bcf 😃 just read that news story you posted, there's really no sense in some people 🤣🤣🤣

Well done moon Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2020 22:33

Well done , moonlight
Another good FD

"There's nowt so queer as folk", nose 😁
Who - above the age of 5 - ever gets the idea of shoving magnets up their nostrils ?
Oh, of course, an astrophysicist (they are known as the weirdo's weirdos)

OP posts:
Waspie · 01/04/2020 08:48

I love that news story BCF - it's totally "WTAF?" It just shows that you can't equate intelligence with common sense!

Well done moonlight. For me it cereal bars. By the time my pregnancy reached week 20 I was a stone heavier and had a serious granola habit Smile

Well done to you too nose. And just think of all the exercise you're getting walking to and from the loo 30 times a day Grin Sugar free jellies sound interesting - I will have to brave the supermarket this weekend so I will see if I can find some.

I'm NFD today, I plan an FD tomorrow. Anyone fasting today? Good luck if you are Flowers