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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
moonlight1705 · 26/03/2020 20:32

I ended up on 995 on this mini.

Hope it has gone well for you all Tuesday people!

moonlight1705 · 27/03/2020 06:08

Having reread that then I obviously meant Thursday Blush

OohMrDarcy · 27/03/2020 09:00

Morning all

Just checking in, still around. I've been ill with probable Covid which has been fun but better now. Still stuck in quarantine for another week and then we are locked down still anyway.

How is everyone doing?

Waspie · 27/03/2020 10:05

Well done moonlight - you did have me worried there for a moment and thinking today is Wednesday!

Hi yumyumpoppycat. What days are you planning your minis for? I'm working at home with one son aged 12 (year 7). How are you managing the juggling?

MrD sorry to hear you are unwell. I'm glad you are feeling a bit better now though Flowers

I finished my FD within my 500 calories yesterday so I'm happy. NFD for me today. I took the dog out earlier across the fields and the weather is lovely again. We didn't see another person but the dog and I saw lots of wildlife Smile

Anyone fasting today? Good luck if so!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2020 10:21

MrD I wondered if you were OK - thank goodness you are well again
Do take care of yourself, with TLC NFDs - and keep drinking water

Well done, waspie, moonlight, emcla

Welcome back, yumyum
I've found I have to have a rough plan for my days or I'd just Kindle all day (chronic bookworm and live alone)
So I schedule 3-4 meals, exercise, 15 minutes chores, self-care, Kindle, MN

We've had 2 weeks of lockdown in Germany and the gym is just a fond memory,
as I was social distancing even earlier

Joe WIcks looks an excellent start to the day, or do one of his free routines later if that fits better
I enjoy working through my Tabata album
Some MNers are Shred fans

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 27/03/2020 18:51

Thanks for the welcome!

MrD hope you are all on the mend in your house Thanks

Waspie it's not too bad as dh is around too although that brings its own dramas! The children have actually got on with it all better than I would have expected and were all quietly working at one point today which was like a miracle! the littlest one keeps wanting to have people play with her and do baking though which is a pain 😂 probably we will all settle into a nice routine and then schools will reopen just as that happens.

Bigchoc that is really disciplined, I would also love to just read all day! I def agree though a routine is key even though it goes against my nature, dh is v strict about up and dressed etc which is going to be helpful in The long run.

Youngest is doing joe wickes, eldest then does it again for pe set by school with diary, but middle child is refusing unfortunately. They have to do it one at a time for space. I have done les mills a couple of times this week, body balance and body combat which I loved. Need to do more but haven't sorted out a regular time in the day for it as I want to go after the children on the exercise rug and clean it so any germs are dead by the next morning for them! Blush

I haven't decided on fast days, which days are most popular on here for fasting buddies? I kind of meant to start today but it hasn't happened but equally has at least been quite a healthy food day as a result of good intentions.

ListeningQuietly · 27/03/2020 18:59

Fasting has gone utterly pear shaped due to lockdown
but
am still strictly sticking to

  • 2 meals a day (one small one big)
  • no snacking
  • as much exercise as I can manage using videos, the garden and yomps to the shop

No idea what I weigh as I do not own a set of scales
but my mental health is holding up
and physically I feel fine and my waistband is happy

not much else matters

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2020 20:17

Sounds like you are doing well, Listening

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 28/03/2020 07:30

Well I STS this week which isn't too bad considering the situation. We did have a couple of glasses of wine midweek so will try not to do that next week.

It has been both a lovely week having DH and DD around but also so frustrating not going to work and having chats with other people. I'm doing a virtual game of cards against humanity tonight with friends to help.

How is the Joe Wickes thing? Taekwondo have done online videos which are really good but need to try and do them every day.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2020 09:51

sts is probably the most realistic aim for most of us until this crisis is over, Moonlight

I had a look at Joe WIckes
He seems a nice bloke but he talks far too much 😂 and I like music when training
So I'll stick with my Tabata download until I get bored
Why not give him a go - he looks an excellent starter for those who aren't hardcore exercisers and need encouragement
The TKD sounds great too - mix it up maybe, alternate days ?

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 28/03/2020 16:00

I haven't done joe wickes and usually work and let them get on with it, but I definitely noticed too much chat on day 1 😂 I love it that he does a workout mon to Friday at 9 as it helps with the structure to the week. Never would have imagined joe wickes would be the cornerstone of our week 🤪

yumyumpoppycat · 28/03/2020 16:02

Which tabata workout are you doing big choc?

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2020 18:00

yum I found a Tabata mp3 album on Amazon with fast tracks I like

Nothing fancy:
they count1-2-3 at start & end of each set
and I do whatever exercises I choose for each, then stop after 30-40 mins

I do a mixture of cardio:
XCo tubes, burpees, jumping jacks, squat jumps, mountain climbs, shadow boxing etc

and strength:
pullups, pressups, squats, lunges and various lifts with handweights

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2020 19:44

REMINDER:

Clocks go forward at 1am Sunday

  • useful to go to bed an hour earlier, to get your full night's sleep
OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 29/03/2020 08:09

Morning all. I forgot about the clock change BigChoc and thought how nice that DS hadn’t woken up until 7, then realised that it was actually 6 according to his body clock so no real improvement Hmm

Weighed myself on Thursday and rather disconcerted to be 9 st 12.5, apparently gaining 2.5 pounds. I know it’s unlikely to be a genuine gain after one week of attempting maintenance but it was a disappointment.

I’ve adjusted MFP back to 1550, which was my “lose 0.5 pounds a week” allowance and will see what the scales say on Thursday. May have to do some minis to get back on track. We’re doing the Joe Wicks workout and I’m keeping up with the C25K so still reasonably healthy.

Hope everyone is doing well and starting to adjust to the new normal....

Clutterfreeintraining · 29/03/2020 08:50

Morning everyone.

Just catching up on the last couple of days.
My Thursday fast fell apart as soon as I got to work and ate breakfast Blush. I did walk there though and on Friday. The joe wicks enthusiasm definitely waned as the week went on Grin.

Yumyum- I'm not surprised you feel unmotivated - wfh with 3dc and a dh at home sounds challenging. Especially when you're trying to motivate the children into a new routine.

I have a yr13 who should have been sitting his A levels and has completely downed tools and refusing to do any work Sad I'm swaying between feeling sad he's likely to fail them all now, to thinking 'sod it, life's too short' Confused Good luck with your minis.

Clutterfreeintraining · 29/03/2020 08:54

Posted too soon!

MrD - sorry to hear you've been unwell. Hope you feel better now. Anyone else in your household have symptoms?

Well done to everyone managing minis, FDs and good NFDs.

FD for me today. I had momentarily forgotten about the clocks and was just thinking 7.45 was a civilised time to wake up and quite late for me Grin

Anyone else fasting today?

badger82 · 29/03/2020 09:59

Back on fast train tomorrow. I thought I'd just roll with TDEE while we are coping with coronacrisis but have managed to put 2kg back on in 2 weeks. It had taken me two months to lose that!! So unfair Smile

Anyway back on it tomorrow

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2020 10:34

Morning all

I'm having a Sunday minFD, Clutter so good luck to us both
I heard UK exams have been cancelled and replaced by teachers assessments & the mock results , so he wouldn't have to sit them ?

Sydney, Badger During the unnatural conditions of this lockdown, it is so easy to regain - espeially for anyone who is a "hard loser",
what with probably less moving around than normal and food intake tending to creep up unconsciously

What can help us all:

  • Daily weighing and aim to sts
  • 2 weekly miniFDs or daily 16:8 - Intermittent Fasting is one of the ways to help the immune system.
  • Eat meals, no snacking between and be sensible about treats at meals
  • Daily exercise at home and / or or a walk / jog outside is another, but sensible amounts - don't exhaust yourself
  • Plenty of sleep is important too, so add a siesta if you don't sleep enough at night
  • Keep drinking water - not fizzy junk - and boost veg & beans Frozen is just as good, maybe better without everyone's hands mauling the fresh stuff Lots of fibre and goodness in peas, beans, lentils and tinned are easy.
  • A daily routine, to fit in all the above
OP posts:
badger82 · 29/03/2020 13:07

Thanks @bigchoc all great advice as ever
Will stay in touch on here too as it really helps

Clutterfreeintraining · 29/03/2020 14:00

BigChoc - that’s correct, no exams but he’s not had a great 6 months in school so ongoing assessments don’t really give a true reflection of his ability and he didn’t have mocks for every subject. Also, he tends to pull it out of the bag at the last minute for end of year exams. He has the opportunity to add extra essays to the evidence his teachers need to grade him but he’s refusing to do anything.

I hope your FD is going to plan. I’m trying to keep busy by cleaning the kitchen Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2020 14:38

Yep, the more contacts and support of all kinds, the better, badger

"He has the opportunity to add extra essays to the evidence his teachers need"

Oh, then you're right to be exasperated, Clutter
that was kind of the teachers and a great opportuniy for him to increase his grades
Arrgh, teens - we all spent a few years with forward planning dialled back to zero Smile

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 29/03/2020 18:29

To be fair to him, there are several contributing factors to his lack of motivation and this is the 5th year of formal examinations and I think he’s just burnt out. However, it would be such a shame to miss this opportunity. I’m going to email his head of year to find out the deadline for coursework and hope after having a week off he’ll feel more inclined to get some work done. At least his general mood has improved in the last couple of days Smile

ListeningQuietly · 29/03/2020 19:30

My gym is closed and I normally swim 4-5 miles a week
BUT
If you are a David lloyd member they have LOADS of on demand classes
and Les Mills on demand is £10 a month for unlimited use

I am massively missing my swimming but am trying to do an hour of programmed exercise a day
if somebody else is settiing the pace I work harder

also in the latest New Scientist, huge chunks about improving your chances of fighting Covid
16:6 was specifically mentioned
as was exercise
as was chatiing to people with similar interests online

so the lovely Auntie Bigchoc has been proved right with bells on

OohMrDarcy · 30/03/2020 09:19

Morning all still here and feel fully recovered now.

DD (13) has an ongoing cough - only 2/3 times a day now but just refusing to go away.

Only another 5 days until we can go for hour daily prescribed exercise walk!

Hope everyone is coping ok with lockdown