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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Clutterfreeintraining · 23/03/2020 20:27

Waspie - that's funny!! And I had stir fry too but mine wasn't that yummy, unfortunately Sad

Going to bed now because the hot cross buns are calling me Grin

emcla · 23/03/2020 22:11

Thanks waspie.

Clutter , bed is a good plan. Sleep well.

Whattodowithaminute · 23/03/2020 22:12

I think I’m going to step back from 5:2 for a little while-I’m going to knock any form of indulgence on the head as I want to be able to give the kids little bits and pieces over the coming weeks. I’m carrying on with the daily shred and shouldn’t be exceeding TDEE with my current intake... good luck all, stay focussed in these unusual times...

moonlight1705 · 24/03/2020 08:40

Feeling good about my non FD yesterday, achieved no snacks but had some lovely meals to fill up.

I'm going to attempt a mini today, it will be easier on the snacking now everyone is home as I won't be tempted to sneak down and get something to eat.

How is everyone doing after last night's announcement? We had planned on going mostly into isolation anyway so I guess it fits in with that plan.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 09:17

Well done on your fasting, emcla, waspie

I finished my miniFD as well and had my daily Rhine walk alone
I also downloaded a really good Tabata album, lots of good fast tunes and did a few quick sets
It was fun Smile
Today I'll Tabata in earnest

Well done on a healthy NFD, Moonlight
and good luck witrh your miniFD today
Smashing the snack habit would be a great win

Shred and healthy habits sounds a reasonable plan for sts, WHat
Good luck and come back when you're ready

OP posts:
emcla · 24/03/2020 10:32

HaloGood luck to any Tuesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 12:16

Relax and enjoy a healthy NFD, Emcla Halo

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 12:57

Well, I'm impressed today & reassured ! 👍

Apart from the holy loo roll and sometimes pasta & rice,
the shelves have always remained full here, with normal or shorter queues (my bit of Germany)

I stocked up back in January - February for several months, but Friday evening for variety, I tried an online supermarket that only sells frozen food.
They had a full choice of slots this week, so I booked for delivery today 10 am -12:00

Everything was delivered to my door by a lovely friendly bloke, touting all their weekly services in his area, obviously with the job of encouraging new customers to book again.

He was 45 minutes after the slot, but the site warned they were experiencing "exceptional demand" so I'll forgive that 😁

I hope things have calmed down in the UK now, so all 5:2ers can chill about fav food supplies

OP posts:
Waspie · 24/03/2020 13:51

Hot cross buns do have gorgeous singing voices clutter Wink

Well done moonlight you sound very positive. I hope your mini is going well today.

Good luck what Flowers

You sound as upbeat as your Tabata BCF Grin I'm glad your mini went well and your Rhine walk hasn't been taken over by too many walkers. Your food delivery service sounds very good. In the UK we still seem to have panic buying and long queues. I'm avoiding the shops entirely for as long as I possibly can.

Good luck Tuesday fasters Brew

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 14:29

Fast bright music with exercise is brilliant for the mood, Waspie
and then breakfast looking out over the Rhine
A happy way to start my day 😁

This afternoon, I added squats, lunges and air-boxing on my walk
Step touch and upper body movement too
Noone came near me, strangely enough - people tend to avoid a batty whirling dervish ! Grin

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 24/03/2020 20:14

Ended my mini on 957 which is good for me, I even planned in a hot cross bun Grin

80skid · 24/03/2020 21:02

Hey everyone, looks like you're all doing really welll Grin. I had a naughty weekend and last night I drank cider and ate rubbish while I watched Boris announcing the shutdown. I got up this morning prepared to put 5:2 to one side for a while - I have 3 kids and a husband at home now, but you know what? I'm not. Absolutely not. I've made progress, it's good for my physically and mentally. I need to work at replacing the exercise I'm missing, but we can do that. After a definite wobble, I'm back in town

emcla · 24/03/2020 22:16

You go 80. Great attitude!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 22:35

Well done on your mini, Moonlight
You can enjoy another bun tomorrow as well Smile

If you feel better on 5:2, then stick with it, 80s !
I've downloaded a lovely Tabata album with lots of old fart tunes I enjoy Grin so I do that indoors
There are lots of exercise vids on YouTube, or treat yourself to Shred

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 26/03/2020 05:37

Morning everyone,

I had intended to fast yesterday but I ended up doing a version of 16:8.

I did walk to and from work and will do the same today aswell. Also, yesterday I attempted the Joe Wickes workout with the children - the three of us ended up lying on the floor, watching only, from about halfway through Blush.

Going to try a FD again today. Anyone else?

Hope everyone's staying safe and sane.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2020 09:13

I'm fasting today as well, clutter
Good luck to us both and any other fasters today

Just had my coffee
and I am about to do my fasted Tabata, with my old fart Tabata album
I live alone, so noone to distract me !

Then I'll have my daily walk - another lovely sunny day
I'm looking out over the Rhine now,
no boats at all, just the swans hanging around, looking pissy - but that's their permanent expression - related to cats maybe ? Grin

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 26/03/2020 09:37

I'm doing a mini for the third time this week and am looking out on nice sunshine.

Good luck today clutter and bcf

emcla · 26/03/2020 09:54

I’m on board the fasting train today. 1 pint of water and a strong coffee for me so far. Soup for lunch and an orange should I need it Good luck all

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2020 10:01

< panting > Just finished Tabata and am glugging a protein meal replacement shake

The janitor was cleaning my windows and balconies outside the whole time, so he got an eyeful of Mad English Woman Grin

Off for my walk shortly

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2020 10:02

Good luck, Moonlight, emcla
4 of us fasting is a darn good showing atm Smile

OP posts:
Waspie · 26/03/2020 14:09

people tend to avoid a batty whirling dervish heheheh BCF Also loving the janitor Grin Enjoy your walk!

80skid - well done you!

I'm joining the FD today - black coffee for breakfast and a chicken noodle cup-a-soup for lunch. Mushroom and left over roast chicken omelette with a salad for dinner.

For the first time I was really didn't want to fast today as I didn't sleep well and woke up feeling a bit groggy, but here I am, 2pm and doing my best. One hour at a time Smile

Good luck moonlight, clutter, emcla and BCF and all other Thursday fasters and minis Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2020 15:07

Good luck, Waspie

Are you free to take an afternoon siesta ?
It'll catch you up on sleep and also be a couple of hours when your brain switches off food

OP posts:
Waspie · 26/03/2020 16:36

I feel pretty good now actually BCF. I took the dog out for an hour and we had a lovely walk in the gorgeous sunshine. I hope you enjoyed your walk too. Nice bubble bath with my book after dinner and then an early night for me I think.

emcla · 26/03/2020 18:22

Well done guys. I did ok but felt very hungry so ate 4 pieces of fruit. Better than cake anyway. All done now. Going for another walk and then a cup of tea.

yumyumpoppycat · 26/03/2020 18:36

Hi all is it ok if I join you again in the hope of finally getting on track with weightlloss. I am feeling really unmotivated and grotty at the mo despite being fairly fortunate in terms of being able to work from home etc. Have 3 school aged kids eldest in year 10 at school so juggling homeschool and working from home. Hoping to do 3 mini fasts a week

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