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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
SydneyCarton · 20/03/2020 22:56

Will do BigChoc. Have come in about 70 cals under TDEE plus about 260 exercise calories. The watch gives me 2100 calories burnt so that’s a deficit of over 600 for a NFD. Sorely tempted by the booze what with The Situation but am ploughing on. 23 days to go!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2020 23:55

Well done Sydney
Especially with avoiding the booze

  • you don't want to worry about the cause of a headache in the morning
and also excess alcohol would lower the effectiveness of your immune system
OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 21/03/2020 09:32

Morning everyone!
How is everyone doing?
What a long week it's been. I had a successful FD on Thursday but once again, comfort are my way through yesterday. I have had to tell the parents of 14 of my 16 childminded children I will not be open for business on Monday Sad

In a bid to claw back a little bit of control I am fasting today.

Going to drive to my mother's shortly to have a cup of tea (she'll be indoors, I'll be in her garden) and drop off her Morher's Day card.

Feeling very emotional about it all and I know this isn't the place for offloading so takin a deep breath and going to get on with the day.

Good luck to any Saturday fasters and to NFDers.

inthethickofit19 · 21/03/2020 10:34

Morning all,

I failed my FD on Thursday (at 11pm). Somehow I'm at 9stone 9.4 lbs. my lowest has been 9stone 9.1lbs.

I think I'm going to try stick to NFD's and minis until I feel mentally able to fast again. There's just too much going on at the moment.

Waspie · 21/03/2020 10:36

The offer from your employer sounds good Sydney. Hopefully it'll help you balance your work with home life.

Well done on your FD clutter. I'm sorry you are feeling low and emotional Flowers I smiled at you being in the garden while your mum is in the house! I'm going to copy this tomorrow as I'm going over to my parents. I've got my mum a Netflix subscription for mother's day but I'll need to talk her through how to use it - she's a technophobe Smile I've got a pile of books and DVDs to loan them to try and help alleviate the boredom of self isolating too.

Thanks for the exercise suggestions BigChoc. DS and I took the dog to the rec. this morning and we played a bit of "1 on 1" basketball. His superior skills versus my superior height! Grin

I spent a couple of hours yesterday evening delivering Corona virus information leaflets issued by the local Council within the parish (the Parish Clerk asked for volunteers) and it was a lovely evening - the days are really drawing out now. The one thing I am glad of in this whole situation is that it's happened as we're going into Spring/Summer.

Good luck Saturday fasters and non-fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 12:46

Well done on Thursday, CLutter and good luck today

That's sad about having to distance from elderly parents, but you are helping keep them safe

It's always been fine to vent here about anything in your life - we've heard about work bullies, divorces, deadbeat dads, bereavements ....

We never "fail" FDs, Inthethick just postpone them
and in this crisis a good target is sts with 5:2 healthy habits, e.g. no snacking and NHS alcohol limits

Netflix was a fab idea for Mother's Day, Waspie
That'll be really useful to her

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 21/03/2020 13:15

Inthethickofit - it's hard to concentrate on anything else, isn't it.

Waspie - it was actually quite enjoyable, despite it being bloomin freezing!! Netflix is a great idea but I know my technophobe mother wouldn't be able to work it out (even with instruction). I still have memories of trying to teach, unsuccessfully, her how to use the video player when I was a teenager Grin

Your walk sounds pleasant and very kind to volunteer your time to hand out leaflets. I wonder if there's something similar I could do here now I have all this extra time on my hands.

Thanks, BigChoc, she's fine in herself but I wonder how she's going to cope without having people to talk to, face-to-face, in the coming weeks. She's only been in for a week and I can already see a difference in her. My sister lives closer and I think she's planning to visit as often as possible so that takes the pressure off a bit. She's a very sociable soul, unlike me - I'm more than happy to be in my own company Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 14:49

Clutter Can she walk on her own without coming into contact with people ?
Does she live in a busy area, or aren't there many people around ?

My flat is on the Rhine bank in a very quiet rural village
So I go for long daily walks (on my own) and even before this crisis would see only a few walkers or cyclists
Otherwise, I stay indoors and will continue like this for the next 3 months or so

As an Aspie hermit, I don't mind not talking to anyone for weeks if need be, but I would really miss being outside
Walking outside is very calming, as well as being good for heart, lungs & brain
Currently, it is recommended here for the uninfected, so long as not mixing with others

Has she a garden to sit in, or even nice big windows to watch the world go by ?

I can sit on the Rhine path benches,
or just in my lounge which has a wonderful view out of full-length windows - also lovely & soothing at this time

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 21/03/2020 16:23

Oh my goodness, BigChoc, your descriptions sound idyllic!!

She is able to go out and does have a lovely garden to sit in but she really does love a good chat with people, whether she knows them or not Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 17:19

She needs to Skype with you and her friends
and of course she should Mumsnet Wink

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 22/03/2020 05:33

Ha, ha, MN is my safe place but will let my sister have another go teaching her to video-chat Grin

Yesterday was a good FD but totally unproductive in terms of housework so I'm going to make a start now before I break my fast.

moonlight1705 · 22/03/2020 07:54

I've STS this week which I'm not surprised about.

I'm going to have a mini FD today, I've planned in a healthy Sunday roast and a nice veg soup for lunch.

Have fun with your housework clutter Hmm Grin

Off into the garden to do some digging after breakfast.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 10:22

Well done on your FD, clutter

That's a good plan, Moonlight
As I've been posting, sts is a good aim over this crisis, so don't stress about losing if it's too tough
Much of life atm is on the Pause button

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 22/03/2020 21:15

Ended my mini on just over 1,000 as I went with a couple of roasties instead of boiled potato.

Hope you've all had a good weekend.

Clutterfreeintraining · 22/03/2020 22:34

Well done, moonlight.

I have eaten my way through the day Blush The takeaway I had planned to order for this evening as my Mother's Day treat didn't happen because I didn't realise last orders were 3.30 on Sunday Sad

I caved in and ate the Easter egg I panic-bought for ds on Friday BlushBlushBlush Bad Mother!!!

Going to fast tomorrow and attempt to batch cook a load of my fresh ingredients for the freezer.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 22:53

Well done on your mini, moonlight

Clutter Grin

OP posts:
Waspie · 23/03/2020 09:53

Goodness clutter I think we may share a mother Grin

The problem my parents have had is that my dad is in denial (he's a fit and robust 77 year old) who has carried on with his usual routine - excepting being able to go to the pub to watch the football - saying it's better to "get it over with" Hmm . Whereas my mum had a stroke last year and has high blood pressure and bad asthma so despite being only 72 is quite vulnerable. But, between us this weekend we have managed to make my dad realise that it's not about him and he's agreed to self-isolate which is a huge relief to my mum. Plus they are in West London where the number of CV cases is rocketing.

Well done on your mini moonlight

Your apartment does sound lovely BCF I hope your walks remain uninterrupted and quiet. Over here we are seeing people flocking to beaches and NT park and woodland.

I'm fasting today too so will join you clutter. I think it's worth checking out your local facebook community group as ours is asking for volunteers to help with all sorts of things! Our local council is also running a volunteers group. I think volunteering also helps one feel more in control of the situation which is good if you're like me and need to feel in control at all times Smile.

Good luck Monday fasters Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 10:35

I'm having a miniFD today, anyone else ?

Another sunny day, so I'm chilling, looking out over the Rhine, before my walk
No boats out, even though that is a very solitary activity

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 23/03/2020 14:17

I was aiming for a mini but it’s proving very difficult with all of us at home and eating together. I’ve switched MFP to maintenance at 9 st 10 and lightly active which gives me 1790 calories a day (cross checked with Moseley’s TDEE calculator at the same activity level which gives me 1764) and am going to go with this for the time being, sticking to no snacks or junk, sensible alcohol levels (zero right now!) etc.

I’ll try to do minis as and when I can, and I’m planning to increase weigh ins to twice a week rather than once so I can keep an eye on it. If I go up to 9:12 I’ll reign things in. We’re planning on doing The Body Coach’s daily PE workout on YouTube, which will help! Plus I’ll be keeping up the C25K running which is going pretty well Smile

emcla · 23/03/2020 15:23

Yes I’m on a fd today. Had a low cal soup for lunch and fish and veg planned for dinner. Went for a walk at lunchtime. Felt a bit jittery earlier though but my blood pressure is fine. Maybe it’s my sugars. I’m ok now. How’s everyone else doing??

Clutterfreeintraining · 23/03/2020 16:31

Hi everyone,

Just checking in.

Waspie - ha, ha! Always happy to welcome new siblings and I did live in west London for 12 years Grin Joking aside, that does sound like a very frustrating situation for all of you. My 84yr old aunt is still traipsing off here, there and everywhere and currently has the gardener in for a coffee after he cut the grass Hmm.

I've had a very fraught weekend not knowing how many of my childminded children would be coming this week because the govt guidance was so vague - at one point I had children booked in everyday. That's now changed to three days so I've put my name forward to help at the local school if they need it and going to take advantage of the situation by tidying/deep cleaning the house.

BigChoc - would be lovely to be out on a boat today. How's your mini going?

Sydney - that's a sensible and well thought out plan. I wonder how many joined in the JW PE session...my fb was full of posts about it

Emcla- have you drunk much water? I think dehydration makes you jittery.

FD going ok but I'm feeling pretty hungry now. Stir fry for tea but got to clean the kitchen first Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 17:07

Good luck, *emcla, clutter

Mini going ok
I have 3-4 meals in these circs, just keeping v small portions
porridge & berries, crepe with quark & flaked almonds, butternut squash soup with raw veg, cocoa

I had my allowed solitary daily walk in the sun
there was the usual ballet with the few people I saw, all moving so we keep at least 2-3 m apart

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 17:11

emcla Have you glugged some Marmite ?
Although feeling jittery is understandable atm, until you get into a routine

that's a good plan, Sydney
I've had a week of just walks - what I think of as "unschooling" Grin - but I'll do a few resistance exercises tonight
and sort out a proper exercise routine tomorrow
Too easy to just veg, Kindle and look out of my windows Blush

OP posts:
emcla · 23/03/2020 19:49

I’m out of marmite but put a little extra salt in my soup to see if that helped. Went slightly over today but I’m not going to beat myself up over it. Will do a mini and another fd later in the week to make up for it.

Waspie · 23/03/2020 19:55

How did the first day juggling work and childcare go Sydney? Your plan sounds more manageable for you under the circumstances.

Glad you are feeling less wobbly now emcla I hope the rest of your FD has gone well.

Oh clutter we certainly could be related as my aunt sounds like yours too! It's good of you to volunteer at the school, I'm sure they will be happy for the help.

Kitchen closed here on 430. Had a yummy chicken and prawn noodle sir fry for dinner. Perhaps I'm getting a little more ambitious than constant salad Smile

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