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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 07:43

Well done on your b2b, Hands

Yep, I mentioned Shred as a great way to get / keep fit indoors and doesn't take long
It's been quite popular over many 5:2 threads

MrD Shreds sometimes < waves > Time to resume ?

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 18/03/2020 08:45

I think I still have a shred dvd - could we do a group shred?!

SydneyCarton · 18/03/2020 10:47

Hi all - FD here, although not sure whether it'll be a mini or not. I'm WFH for the foreseeable future and have always found it harder to fast at home. That said, this is now the new normal so I should exercise some will power and get used to it!

I might look at the shred stuff, but we are in a flat so I'm a bit wary of bouncing around due to the neighbours, plus there's no real separate space to do it in. At the moment I'm still sticking to the C25K programme - not self isolating and not in a high-risk group so still going out running at the moment.

Planning to go for a walk at lunchtime and get my mum a Mother's Day card - flowers have been ordered and hopefully will be delivered. I have a Tesco delivery coming tomorrow - at least in theory... I have a horrible feeling it'll end up being cancelled at the last minute.

Waspie · 18/03/2020 15:17

Thank you all, you are very kind to offer us your good wishes. Our CP went well; the registrar was lovely - she said that she usually shakes hands but is now relying on a broad smile instead Smile

We spoke to our friends/witnesses on Monday evening to say that if they wanted to back out we wouldn't be offended. Luckily they didn't so we had a lovely day and a gorgeous meal at a Michelin starred restaurant on the banks of the Thames. It wasn't very busy but then it probably wouldn't be on a Tuesday lunchtime anyway. I did not fill out MFP diary yesterday!

Well done on all of the FD's and SVs!

I've got a delivery slot for Saturday and I've added my mum and dad's and my aunties stuff to my shopping list as they are all elderly and trying to isolate themselves. I hope it doesn't get cancelled. Hopefully these new limits on purchases and stores shutting overnight to clean and restock will help.

My son's school is still open but he's bouncing off walls as he usually does a lot of extra curricular sports and drama all of which is suspended currently. I'm trying not to be a bit cat's bum face about the amount of time he's spending on his X box! He and I did go for a walk for an hour with the dog yesterday late afternoon which was very nice.

My company has closed all of their European offices and everyone is now working from home. It's easy enough for us as it's an IT company and most people work from home or client site frequently so the infrastructure is all in place.

I hope Wednesday fasters are having a good day and everyone else is staying safe and well Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 15:29

What a lovely day for you both, Waspie
Congratulations again to you and your partner 💐

Good luck on your FD, Sydney
C25k is a brilliant program and building up your running would strengthens heart & lungs too
If need be, maybe Shred in Socks later ? 🙂

Clutter A group Shred sounds fun
Or group Fat Blasts & strength training for those who can't access Shred and / or only have a few minutes per day
I can suggest different routines if anyone plans to train independently indoors

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 18/03/2020 15:39

Congrats on your day Waspie

I'm trying to get my menu sorted .... having both kids home from Uni indefinitely adds to the shopping joy

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 15:57

Time for your frugal recipes, Listening with the locusts rustling around
but at least you don't snack

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 18/03/2020 16:11
Grin I am using my Brexit stockpile of tins and pulses and the butcher had plenty of cheap cuts of meat so my freezer is full

all will be well

moonlight1705 · 18/03/2020 16:19

Wooo work has finally capitulated and I will be working from home for the next couple of weeks at least.

Sadly I realised I'm i a high risk category as my BMI is over 40 Sad so let's hope I don't get this virus.

Congrats waspie glad you had a lovely day and enjoyed your meal after.

listening I went to the butchers yesterday and got some lovely meat for the freezer. I always assumed supermarkets were cheaper but they had brilliant deals at the butchers and got loads of meals worth.

ListeningQuietly · 18/03/2020 16:28

moonlight
Butchers sell cheap cuts - like shin of beef - that supermarkets do not touch
and their meat is often British rather than imported from goodness knows where packed in the UK is a fascinating phrase

moonlight1705 · 18/03/2020 16:34

listening absolutely, I got a lovely looking piece of lamb for Sunday dinner that was the same price as I pay at Sainsbury's but probably with twice as much meat on it.

I think I'm going to try recipes like liver and shin of beef for the future and I'm definitely going to try and use local shops more.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 18:09

WFH is a really helpful step to keeping you safe, Moonlight

Boost beans, peas, lentils - all v healthy
and aim for at least 5 different veg per day and 1-2 fruit

Frozen veg, berries etc are just as nutritious - and unlike loose veg, haven't been fingered by snotty hands or coughed over

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 18/03/2020 18:24

Social distancing : if you can reach out and touch the next person
you are too close
If you go through doors used by other than your family wash your hands
Avoid lifts, avoid escalators, do not use handrails

All of which are healthy options in general Wink

EssentialHummus · 18/03/2020 19:24

Hi all, just checking in after a long silence.

listening that sounds lovely and healthy, good thinking!

Well, I’m coordinating the local covid volunteer group for this corner of London, so the good news from me is that I have no time to think about snacking Grin. Odd perk, but I’ll take it.

Lovely to see that we are all keeping our heads in these strange times.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 20:18

Good to "see" you again Hummus
Well done for your volunteer work 💐
and do not snack 🛰 < hovering over hummus >

OP posts:
emcla · 18/03/2020 22:00

Hi hummus and everyone, I’m back too after a long silence. Lost the weight. Tried to do 3 sensible meals a day as was getting constipated on 5 2. Now back heavier than ever. V peed off.

SydneyCarton · 18/03/2020 22:25

FD finished on just over 1000, so another mini for me. Would have come in lower but we had steak in the fridge which needed eating and it came in at 500 calories for each piece, plus a salad with prawns (also needed eating). Weigh in tomorrow, not really sure if there’ll be a loss or not. If I can stay the same that’ll be enough.

Strange times. Trying to work out how to juggle home working with a 5 year old, 3 year old and a 20 month old toddler Confused. Hoping to keep up the fasting until I get to goal weight but appreciating that it may take time as it’s bound to be stressful and usual routines will go out of the window

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 22:40

Welcome back, emcla
Did you try 16:8 ?
Were you drinking at least 1.5 l water and eating lots of veg ? That helps avoid constipation

On maintenance, most people need to weigh daily
and then adjust calorie intake as soon as you regain 4lb
whether via FDs or reducing portion size or low carb or whatever suits

OP posts:
emcla · 18/03/2020 22:52

Hi bigchoc. I’m good on the water front. I didn’t try 16 8 or daily weight in. I need to lose about a stone now. So starting with a b2b tomorrow

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2020 23:25

Good luck with the b2b, emcla

When you reach goal this time,
I definitely recommend daily or at least weekly weighing - almost everyone needs this monitoring
4lb is pretty easy to haul back, if you catch it in time

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 19/03/2020 06:55

Good luck em, you're doing well do try get the balance right.

sydney - we're now all like that chap who went live on CNN (?) from Korea only to have his toddler and 4 year old burst into the room Grin. Sympathies. It's very very tough.

SydneyCarton · 19/03/2020 07:46

Hummus He’ll probably be writing parenting tips right now! I had a taste of this two weeks ago when dd1 was off school with a fake stomach ache and suddenly loomed into shot during a Skype call with my manager Hmm. Fortunately he has young children too and thought it was funny but it was definitely less than ideal.

Stayed the same at 9:10 today, so I’m pleased with that.

moonlight1705 · 19/03/2020 08:04

Right I am working from home and on a FD. It is going to be hard to resist but taking water upstairs with me to the office.

I don't know how you are coping sydney. DD will be off nursery from Monday although handily so will DH as he is a teacher. I'm dreading how little work I might get done.

How do you entertain a 13 month old all day?

inthethickofit19 · 19/03/2020 08:10

FD today. Checking in! Going nuts with my whingy 11 month old so know your pain moonlight!

emcla · 19/03/2020 08:42

Good luck to all Thursday fasters x

Thanks for your nuggets of wisdom and support everyone x