Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Waspie · 16/03/2020 09:22

Morning All.

I'm joining you in a FD today clutter. I hope things are calmer at home for you now Flowers

I'm glad your b2b went well BCF.

I hadn't realised how silly the supermarkets had become as I usually have a delivery anyway but the delivery man said the number of online orders his store was trying to handle had almost doubled this week. My parents said that they had been to two supermarkets on Sunday and found very empty shelves, including perishables like potatoes and eggs. I hope people calm down with the panic buying soon; it's so counter productive Sad.

Clutterfreeintraining · 16/03/2020 09:39

Thank you, Waspie. Yes, calmer for now but I have almost constant anxiety regarding ds. However, I don't think now is the best time to try and see the gp to discuss my options.

I'm not a fan of busy supermarkets under normal circumstances (avoid them for most of December if I can) so am trying my best to stay away now - people's behaviour is turning ugly.

moonlight1705 · 16/03/2020 10:54

My local sainsbury's doesn't have a delivery slot for three weeks! I'm needing to get milk later so will see how it is doing on the shelves.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2020 11:38

Good luck, Waspie, clutter

Maybe add a pack of longlife too, Moonlight ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2020 18:32

Gyms all closed here for at least a month, so I had several Rhine walks

  • going to be doing that a lot. Must add pressups, squats etc on some days

I miss gym already, but it was a glorious sunny day to be out,
also playing ball with neighbours perpetual motion machine / Heinz 57 little dog

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 16/03/2020 19:11

I'm wondering if the same will happen here in the not too distant future. I try to swim every morning before work (often too tired after work) so might see if my swim-buddy fancies a quick walk instead. At least it's lighter at 6am now.

I'm so fed up of it already and we've got a long way to go yet Sad

FD has gone well. I had a slim-a-soup and a pitta bread for lunch and just made a veg-heavy omelette for my dinner. Might go up to bed now to avoid the kitchen - not that there's anything snackable in there.

How are you getting on, Waspie?

Waspie · 16/03/2020 20:01

We have eaten similar meals today clutter . Kitchen closed on 430.

I'm sorry about the lack of swimming and gym facilities now for you and BCF. At least the weather seems to be improving so walks and runs are a decent option.

3 weeks is insane moonlight. I hope you manage to get milk. I think I'll add some UHT milk to my order too. It's pretty grim but better than nothing.

It's our civil partnership tomorrow so I won't be online. Good luck in advance to Tuesday fasters!

SydneyCarton · 16/03/2020 22:46

Mini FD here finished on 897. Was planning a proper one but I got home to be greeted with a sausage sandwich, which put me onto about 600 cals straight away, and then I went crazy Grin with a small banana and a couple of spoonfuls of cream. Delicious. Apple Watch has clocked me at 2100 calories burnt thanks to fifty minutes brisk walk at lunchtime so a good 1000 calorie deficit for today. Trying to resist the urge to cope with the madness by sticking my head in the biscuit tin Confused ...

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 16/03/2020 23:02

Hi all

Sorry I’ve missed a week of chat. Been a bit crazy with coronavirus planning at work and some less dramatic stuff at home so I skipped last week.

Back on it with a good fast today - had my usual busy work day which really helped and powered through on black coffee till about 4pm when I had a big spinach salad with feta.

Well done Mondayers, and good luck Tuesdayers. I usually do B2B so will be giving it a try.

OohMrDarcy · 17/03/2020 07:21

Morning all

No delivery slots for 3 weeks here either. I currently have one for Friday which I accidentally booked weeks ago, so will be getting what I can with that! (Assuming it doesn't get cancelled).

Attempting a FD today, need to plan some food as having to get creative with meal plans this week due to lack of much of use on the shelves 🤷‍♀️

As I have asthma I'm taking the latest government advice and distancing myself from what I can, so bang goes any social life for 3 months, but got to do what we have to do to stay safe at the moment. Hoping the weather is dry at the weekend, then we can go for a walk somewhere quiet.

Hope everyone is coping ok with it, I'm not an anxious person but I have to admit i am feeling it now.

moonlight1705 · 17/03/2020 08:38

On a FD today too so will join all you Tuesday fasters.

All of this lack of shopping may be excellent for the fasting I suppose trying to think of something good I did get UHT milk but there was plenty on the shelves luckily. UHT is fine for us although a bit grim but need whole milk for DD. I've decided not to worry about online ordering and just head to the shops as we are not isolated yet.

I am not in the at risk group so am carrying on as normal but my social life is going down the pan due to the theatres closing so my G&S group is closed. DH is sad because all the football is gone so he is threatening to get the 1985 cricket cup videos out.

Hope you have a wonderful day Waspie and really enjoy your meal out Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2020 10:36

Congratulations and best wishes for your civil partnership tomorrow, Waspie 💐🎉

Well done on your FDs & miniFDs, clutter, Waspie, Sydney, Hands

Good luck on your FD today, MrD, Hands, Moonlight

Grocery deliveries have a very limited range in my area, so little use to me even if they did have slots
I still do a quick weekly shop on my bike - farm shop and drinks from mini-market, hence not many people

I just decide before I go in what I need, don't linger, don't touch face and wash hands thoroughly as soon as I get home,
with disinfectant spray for bag & keys

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2020 10:38

When it really gets to peak here, I*ll stop shopping for at least a month and live entirely off my prepper stash

OP posts:
80skid · 17/03/2020 11:33

Hi everyone, I hope you're coping with the constantly changing madness ok. After much soul searching, I cancelled this mornings spin class. I feel it was low risk (0645 class in near empty gym), but at least now I know if my parents catch anything, it was not due to any selfishness on my part.
Today is a FD. I'm not currently a runner (have been, back/plantar issues) so decided against a straight swap with the spin class as I'm not used to it. I'll have a walk at lunchtime and hopefully attempt a run on a non FD and just keep it steady.
Today I am celebrating a NSV in keeping the FD - very tempted to not bother with all of the uncertainty. On the other hand, when I finally meet in person with someone I've been trying to catch in a little while, I'll have an extra 3 months weight loss under my ever lengthening belt Wink
Onwards and upwards folks, these are unprecedented times but kindness and ingenuity will soar

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2020 12:12

Well done on your FD 80s
Yep, imo time to stop gym and any other non-essential outings

You can walk outside,
do YouTube videos, e.g. Shred is popular on these threads
do bodyweight exercises, e.g. squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips on a bench / step / chair etc
Use tins or small bottles as handweights

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 17/03/2020 12:29

hey 80s - know the feeling, my brain it constantly telling me fasting is the last thing I need right now- but it is something within my control when so much isn't, and if nothing else food will last longer Wink

Whattodowithaminute · 17/03/2020 13:59

I need to get back to planning FD... minor blip associated with ToTM.
DH now WFH which has changed the house routine a bit so need to think how I will make this work now as traditionally I’ve fasted when he’s out...
Unusual times ahead all-stay positive and hopefully we will enjoy the extra health that this WOL has encouraged.
I’ve stopped swimming now but spending more time at the allotment digging etc.

80skid · 17/03/2020 15:26

I ditched the walk and did some yoga with Adrienne. I suspect she'll see her YouTube hits skyrocket over the next few weeks - exercise and mental space all in one!!
All the best folks. Stay safe.

MazDazzle · 17/03/2020 18:00

Hope it all goes well tomorrow Waspie. Enjoy your day!

I’ve been the same 80s. I’m fasting today, but part of me thinks ‘Fuck it!’ Blush

I’ve managed to stick with it though. Not long had my fast day meal of crackers, wafer thin ham, houmous and veg.

DH on his way home from Dubai. He’s been away for a month. It’ll be a relief to finally get him home.

My kids are struggling, especially the eldest who has ASD. So many of the things she’s been looking forward to have been cancelled. Sad I know in the greater scheme of things this is a tiny insignificance. I’ve been trying to remind her that things have been postponed rather than cancelled.

Well done to all of the fasters. You’ve done well to stick with it in these circumstances!

Clutterfreeintraining · 17/03/2020 18:22

Waspie - I hope you are having a fantastic day today - congratulations Flowers

Sydney - I think a sausage sandwich presented to me would be pretty hard to resist!

HandsDown - your salad sounds yum! Well done on a good FD

MrD - yay for the Friday delivery slot!! I'm not generally an anxious person or at least I manage to hide it pretty well but I am a bit of a wreck at the moment - although feeling a bit calmer this afternoon for no apparent reason Confused. Hope your FD is going well.

Moonlight - hope your FD is manageable...I was thinking earlier that at least I'll have shifted some weight if we get confined for the foreseeable Grin

BigChoc - are you generally a prepper? I did get into it a bit when the first Brexit date was looming but it's been postponed so many times I gave up and have run down my stash - slightly regretting that now but do have quite a well-stocked cupboard/freezer so nowhere near crisis point yet. Sounds like your shopping method is a sensible one!

80skid - I had a similar thought process yesterday. Hope your day is going to plan.

What - totm does cause havoc sometimes, doesn't it!! My pool is still open and there were only 4 of us there this morning so I'm not sure whether to keep going while I can or not Confused

OohMrDarcy · 17/03/2020 18:35

Kitchen closed on round 700 today. Not ideal but I've got through it

moonlight1705 · 17/03/2020 19:11

Finishing on 583 today. I'm just making a mushroom and ham omelette for dinner then a cuppa afterwards.

Sadly no more taekwondo for a while but they've made home videos for us to use whilst not training.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2020 21:32

Well done on nailing tough FDs, Maz, MrD, Moonlight and any other Tuesday fasters

CLutter I live in Germany and the German govt has long advised having at least 10 days food - that advice probably started in the Cold War and remained because of incidents like Chernobyl, or floods etc

I increased that to over 2 weeks after I broke my ankle ligaments a couple of years ago and was ordered to stay off it for 10 days - I lived off delivery pizza for the last few days !

For Brexit, I only added a 6-pack of Marmite crisps, as that's the only UK essential that might run short on the continent

However, in early Feb, I increased my stash for Covid to 3 months, because of my age
I'm semi-isolating from now, just doing Rhine walks & jogs and have found a healthy online store for quick top-ups

OP posts:
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 17/03/2020 23:00

Hi All

Fasting is a great focus for me in these stressy times. Work is really tricky: I can do my job from home but it takes about twice as long due to not having all the best equipment. So not sure if i should keep going in or move to wfh but know that it will be significantly decreasing productivity and upping my hours.

Anyways, pleased to say i FDed today so have managed a B2B Mon adn Tues which was my usual routine and I feel so much better for it after a fairly indulgent weekend.

Planning to do a sensible NFD tomorrow and save wine and crisps for Friday.

Stay well everyone; hope we all manage some safe outdoor time at some point.

I can recommend Shred that someone upthread referrred to. It’s very bouncy and energetic and although the sessions are only 20 mins each you get quite sweaty. Watch your knees tho; its quite high impact.

Xx

OohMrDarcy · 18/03/2020 07:40

Hands, can you take any of the equipment from the office home to help you? That is what people are doing as needed here.

I'm WFH permanently too at the moment, my boss is pretty understanding about it all and still remembers last years whooping cough fun.

Scales today are back where they should be which is nice, doing a bolognaise pasta bake tonight for tea - NFD

Swipe left for the next trending thread