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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
OohMrDarcy · 13/03/2020 08:41

Congrats badger!

Waspie · 13/03/2020 10:12

Wonderful SV's MrD, What and Badger Great achievements Flowers

Well done on your FD moonlight

I haven't been brave enough to weigh myself. DP weighed himself and his weight loss has slowed to 0.3kg, although he did spend most of last Saturday in the pub watching the rugby, drinking beer and eating junk so it's hardly surprising.

NFD for me today, next FD will be Monday. Clear and sunny here in Berkshire today - let's hope it stays that way for a while.

Anyone fasting today? Good luck those who are Brew

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2020 12:37

Well done on your FD, Moonlight

That Boditrax is so encouraging, Listening
Lovely to have a mechanical bf murmuring flattering words / text to you !

Congratulations on your SV and a big drop, MrD
Yep, focusing on the next NFDs will help keep that

Congratulations to you too, What
Getting into the healthy BMI range after so long is brilliant

and to you, badger
So near goal and then maintenance

  • I always recommend staying 2 weeks at goal weight before moving to maintenance, to check that the new weight is stable
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BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2020 12:38

Oops, that is goal 1, badger
iirc, you are then heading a bit further, so good luck

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BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2020 12:40

No rush to weigh, if it stresses you, Waspie
You can go by clothes feel - pick a garment or two for this

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ListeningQuietly · 13/03/2020 19:08

1 lb down this week.
Felt like more but happy with that.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2020 19:28

Congratulations on your SV, Listening
When you've only a little to lose, every bit makes a more noticeable difference

  • and it's usually a slower process !
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ListeningQuietly · 13/03/2020 20:27

BigChoc
Its interesting ... my BMI is under 23
but because I'm very lightly built my body fat is still 28%
(healthy for my age - just)
and yes, for my age and build, every pound shows

MazDazzle · 13/03/2020 20:57

Well done badger and listening and anyone else with SV! Reading about everyone else’s victories really keeps me going.

After Monday’s successful FD I had a relaxed couple of NFD Blush. Two of my kids are ill, so not getting much sleep. My husband is away working abroad and work is crazy just now. Reigned it back in yesterday coming in at 1000 calories and today my FD came in at 700. Not bad.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2020 21:18

Well done, Maz on nailing a tough FD

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OohMrDarcy · 14/03/2020 07:15

Congrats on the SV listening, a pound when you are at that BMI takes much more work than a pound at mine!

Maz, well done keeping going through what sounds like a tough week. Hope your DH is able to get home again and isnt stuck in one of the locked down countries.

We had curry for dinner last night, not done it in ages and was delicious (and another step healthier as always use brown rice now). Checked in with the scales this morning and managed to maintain so far... fingers crossed for the rest of the weekend.
We have a family party for my nans 90th birthday tonight so will he celebrating whilst keeping our distance from her!

moonlight1705 · 14/03/2020 07:57

A small loss of 1/2 lb but it is ttotm so will see what happens next week.

All great SVs badger mrd listening Smile

OohMrDarcy · 14/03/2020 08:26

Moonlight, a loss at TOTM is a massive achievement, well done!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2020 10:10

Well done Moonlight on losing anything at totm

That's a good new habit with the brown rice, MrD
More fibre and vitamins for you all

I'm doing a WE b2b, anyone else fasting today ?

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Waspie · 14/03/2020 10:18

Congratulations listening and moonlight Brew

I hope your nan has a wonderful 90th birthday MrDarcy Flowers

I braved the scales this morning - 0.5Kg loss. I'm surprised but pleased Smile My dream original hope was 5Kg off by 17th March. My realistic hope was 3Kg. I started using MFP and sticking to TDEE on 7th Feb and had my first FD on 10th Feb, so it's been 5 weeks and a loss of 3.5Kg overall which I think is pretty decent.

I'm hoping to get some gardening done today, just some weeding and tidying. Fingers crossed it remains dry for a while!

Anyone fasting today? BigChoc are you having a maintenance day? Good luck everyone whether it's an FD, NFD or maintenance day.

Waspie · 14/03/2020 10:20

Sorry BigChoc took me so long to work out my figures I ended up cross posting with you. Good luck with your weekend b2b.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2020 10:53

Congratulations on your SV, Waspie
That's really encouraging for you

Oh, just seen - Happy 90th to your nan, MrD 💐

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OohMrDarcy · 15/03/2020 09:00

Congrats on the SV waspie!

Thanks both, she had a lovely party, unfortunately my parents cant get back from spain now to celebrate with her, and as days go on our next visit to them is looking highly unlikely, but we shall see. Safety first and all that jazz.

inthethickofit19 · 15/03/2020 10:17

Lots of wonderful SV's!

I started fasting again this week and had a SV on Thursday - 9 st9.1

Only 4 weeks left to the wedding so I am trying to fast twice a week but also have a couple of minis. My tdee is 1500 and I can only lose 2/3 of a lb a week theoretically so hopefully this will help boost it a bit.

I'm back on my prophylactic antibiotics - BCF do you know if this will impact loss?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2020 12:40

Congratulations on your SV, IntheThick

No, antibiotics should have no effect on loss
and anyway you should NEVER stop even those meds which do affect things

That's good she enjoyed her party, MrD

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Waspie · 15/03/2020 14:55

I'm sure your parents were there in spirit MrDarcy and I'm very pleased to hear your nan enjoyed her party!

Congratulations on your SV inthethickofit19

How is your b2b going BCF?

We were supposed to be at a mini's rugby tournament today with DS's team but it was called off late yesterday afternoon. Instead we've blitzed the house and cleaned anything which didn't move out of the way quickly enough. The dog is cowering on her bed; she does not approve of cleaning and detests the noise of the vacuum Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2020 18:02

Just finished the b2b, thanks Waspie
It's a maintenance b2b of 800 cals per FE

I hope you've apologised to your dog and that it has found its toys and old bones again

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OohMrDarcy · 16/03/2020 08:04

Morning all

checked in on the scales this morning to see a small gain, however due to our mammoth roast yesterday I'm expecting that to be undigested food (crossed fingers) NFD today, where I shall be eating to appetite only and then next FD is tomorrow... hoping to be on or around last official weigh in for the start of that, but if I'm not I'm not.

Nearly had a melt down yesterday - had to go to the supermarket as couldn't get a delivery slot... They were out of anything of use! No pasta / rice / tinned goods / cereals / tea - including my decaf! Even the sweetie shelves were pretty bare much to my boys disgust! The tea tipped me slightly over the edge into miffed, until a lovely friend saw my FB post and delivered some she had spotted when attempting her shop!

good luck to anyone fasting today

Clutterfreeintraining · 16/03/2020 08:38

Morning, everyone!

Sounds like there are lots of SVs - fantastic.

I had a bit of a horrid weekend with teen ds and comfort ate my way through Saturday night Blush. It kinda continued yesterday but with the knowledge that I'd be getting back on the wagon today (partly because I didn't panic buy and now have no food and the earliest delivery slot is next Sunday!!). I've got plenty here but it all needs prepping/cooking which will limit my ability to impulse eat.

Good luck Monday fasters!!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2020 09:14

Don't worry about the WE blip, MrD
As you say, it's probably undigested food plus retained water from excess carbs
A couple of dumps and a good FD should see you back on track

Same if you have a blip, Clutter

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