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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
SydneyCarton · 12/03/2020 07:07

Yesterday’s FD finished on 634; came home and had a couple of biscuits with the kids before bed and was on the verge of falling asleep with DS at about half eight. He’s been very restless these last couple of nights and awake for 5.30-5.45, so I was exhausted. But DP had made me a sandwich (chicken, sweetcorn and lettuce, with some pickles) and it felt a bit mean not to eat it, plus I knew I needed more than two rich teas even on a fast!

It was actually a very nice sandwich and I’m glad I ate it, even though I did go straight to bed afterwards Grin. Another 5.45 wake up call Angry but on the plus side I just weighed myself and I am 9 st 10 exactly which is my first goal so I feel pretty good.

Still deciding whether to stick here or aim for 9 st 7. The only real reason for going lower is that it feels neater to be at a half stone Grin but both are healthy weights for me.

Have a good one Thursday fasters!

Whattodowithaminute · 12/03/2020 07:10

Well done Sydney brilliant SV and goal.

Good luck Thursday fasters I’m with you stay strong!

OohMrDarcy · 12/03/2020 09:46

Congrats Sydney - ace to reach your first goal! I'd look at where the BMI sits and aim for somewhere in the middle of healthy range?

Glad to hear you are doing well hummus - and looking on the positive side of potential quarantine Grin

day 2 of b2b for me today, and feeling happy and organised - not only are the meals planned but also all the work is done, left over chicken from yestedays stir fry is sat with everything needed ready to go and the casserole is in the slow cooker for later too... setting myself up to win today!

moonlight1705 · 12/03/2020 09:57

A FD for me too and so far all is going well. DH is at a parent's evening tonight so I have to be strong not to ruin the FD when he is out.

My brain knows I eat too much so wants to make it a secret. I find that whenever he goes out then I will think this is the time to get in as much as possible. The 5:2 is helping me retrain the brain but it is hard.

Good luck MrD8 on your b2b and amazing SV sydney*

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2020 10:09

Congratulations on reaching your first goal, Sydney

SInce you sound comfortable continuing to the 2nd goal, I suggest doing so
and then stay 2 weeks at 9st 7 to make sure it's stable

Afterwards, you can maintain within a HappyWeight range of 9st 7 - 9 st 10

Good luck, MrD, moonlight

Good to hear you are doing so well, Hummus

"No junk in the house" is a useful policy for us all
Helps give the two of you the best nutrition you can, for as long as your tum cooperates

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2020 10:10

It takes time to form new habits, moonlight
but the more you practice, the stronger you become

OP posts:
Waspie · 12/03/2020 10:56

Well done on your SV Sydney, and yours too clutter and listening Flowers

Your apartment sounds like it's really becoming home BigChoc. And it's good to have workmen take a pride in their work Grin

I'm another with wonky walls and uneven floors! Ours is early Georgian.

Good luck on your B2B today MrDarcy. I'm fasting today too. Good luck to everyone else fasting today.

I don't have a meal plan. Work's crazy this week and I was out last night and it just hasn't happened. It will probably be my fall back of soup at lunchtime and ether tuna or chicken salad for dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2020 12:07

Good luck today, Waspie

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 12/03/2020 13:48

Hello everyone,

Just popping in very quickly to say hi to you all.
Work is stressing me out today but I'm still on track for a good FD as long as I don't give in to the afterschool snacks later!!
Good luck FDers and NFDers Smile

Whattodowithaminute · 12/03/2020 17:04

Kitchen closed on 550, how are you doing MrD, waspie, moonlight, clutter?
Not the easiest day but I’ve done it. DH is out so early night once the kids are in bed.

Clutterfreeintraining · 12/03/2020 17:38

Good work, What!!

I resisted the afterschool snacks which is a major victory Grin

I have bolognese in the fridge but don't know what to have with it. Going to choir first and will be ready to chew my arm off by the time I get back so need to have a plan in place before I go.

Could I make cauli rice with frozen cauli?

badger82 · 12/03/2020 17:40

What's your view on fasting & coronavirus @bigchoc? Obviously if stricken with flu I wouldn't fast. While the pandemic is erupting should we eat our TDEE to minimise stress to the system and press pause on FDs?

OohMrDarcy · 12/03/2020 18:24

Kitchen closed on around 650 and that is my 3 FDs done for the week. Feeling good.

Will weigh in tomorrow , and then planning to try and maintain for the weekend before getting back to it next week

ListeningQuietly · 12/03/2020 19:35

Cumulative deficit for the week looking OK.
Waistband definitely feels that way.
Meeting with the Boditrax machine tomorrow

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2020 19:54

Well done, What, MrD

Good progress, Listening
which I hope the Boditrax reflects tomorrow
I'm envious of your machine - my gym has only a set of ropey scales which flatters by taking off a few kg, no use at all ! 😂

Clutter I've bought ready-made cauli rice and frozen it, then stir-fried and it's delic

  • but I've never tried grating frozen / thawed cauli to actually prepare the rice from scratch

badger Yep, obviously don't fast if you feel ill
Otherwise, I'd suggest keeping to the 5:2 WOL, with special emphasis on the 5:2 healthy habits,
but feel free to move to 800 FDs if you don't normally do them but want the extra

To support your immune system, cut right back on junky NFD food like sugary treats, crisp, takeaway etc
(personally, I've cut them out totally, alcohol too, but that's v easy for me, don't worry about it)

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals - eat meals, nothing between
  • AIm for a daily eating window of no more than 12 hours, called 12:12 e.g. first meal at 8am and finish last meal by 8pm
  • On NFDs, if you do have any treats (e.g. alcohol, lattes, crisps, sugary treats) only part of a meal, not on their own
  • Lots of water & veg each day, add pulses too (beans, peas, lentils)
  • Cut down on fizzy drinks, even diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)
OP posts:
Waspie · 12/03/2020 20:30

Well done what, MrD and clutter. Your week sounds to be going well too Listening Smile

Kitchen is closed here too. 425 calories. Had a lovely (enormous) chicken salad for dinner two hours ago and still feel full. I might risk a weigh in tomorrow. Unlike listening none of my clothes feel any baggier so I'm not hopeful of any loss, but we'll see.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2020 21:58

Well done on your FD, Waspie

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 12/03/2020 22:06

BigChoc
The Boditrax machine is very cool. It measures impedance so looks at bone mass, muscle mass, fat mass
rather than just raw BMI
and it gives a metabolic age value - for the next few weeks it says I'm in my 30's and I am vain enough to get a buzz out of that !!!

moonlight1705 · 12/03/2020 22:50

Ended on another decent 590 so we'll see how it goes on Saturday morning.

Well done waspie clutter mrd

OohMrDarcy · 13/03/2020 07:07

Morning all

Weighed in and have a loss of 3.6lbs today with current weight of 14st 2.8lbs

Very very happy with that. I now have 4 days until next FD so going to really focus on trying to maintain 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

Sounds like there was lots of great fasting yesterday, well done all.

I'd love access to a boditrax machine, bet it's really interesting! Nothing anywhere near me though, ho hum

Whattodowithaminute · 13/03/2020 07:27

Amazing MrD well done-great to see you back on track.

Whattodowithaminute · 13/03/2020 07:52

2lb down for me which puts me into the healthy BMI range probably for the first time in a decade. 2 stone down since Feb last year. Looking highly unlikely I will have any requirement to be bikini ready in 3 weeks as unlikely to travel due to the pandemic... will keep plodding on though...

OohMrDarcy · 13/03/2020 07:55

Fantastic SV whattodo must feel so good!

I've got travel plans in a month too. As long as it's not banned we will still go, not like it is a packed resort or anything, just visiting my parents... but we shall have to wait and see there...would be amazing luck to get out there and not be allowed to return for a while Wink

EssentialHummus · 13/03/2020 08:08

Well done mrd, what!

badger82 · 13/03/2020 08:17

SV -down 1.2kg 🎉
Feel like I'm getting in the zone now. One more kg to get to goal 1 of 66kg 😊