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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Waspie · 10/03/2020 14:09

I like the sound of 16:8 Listening how are you finding it?

Your new office set up sounds much more sensible moonlight. I hope your new manager works out well for you.

Like moonlight I have a rotating meal plan too clutter and I also like the one pot meals. I love my slow cooker for this. Today we are having slow cook chicken curry. I just chuck it all in in the morning and switch it to low. Slow cooker chilli made with chuck steak rather than mince is lovely (though probably a bit high fat for the new me!)
We do have a pizza evening most weeks which is high calorie but I counter this with a FD style lunch of soup or salad so I'm still within TDEE. I also make the pizzas now rather than buy them so I can control the calories more easily.

My son is a pasta based life form so when I do pasta dishes I'm now having less pasta but more of the sauce with veges like peppers and mushrooms - not cheese sauces though I'm avoiding those.

MazDazzle · 10/03/2020 14:18

2lb gone.

Focusing on the next 7 now.

That sounds like a mush friendlier set up moonlight.

Whattodowithaminute · 10/03/2020 14:34

clutter I’ve really mixed up what we are eating since January as I felt we were in a bit of a rut. I’ve taken loads of inspiration from the Tom kerridge healthy eating type books which are helpfully all calorie counted.
This week;
Malaysian beef curry
Asian chicken thighs
Turkey escalopes with slaw
Spicy beef mince lettuce cups
Salt and pepper chicken
Red pepper pasta
Some of the recipes are a bit cheffy and more faff but the flavours are great. I’m generally making a portion for 4 and freezing 2 servings to stock the freezer.

Whattodowithaminute · 10/03/2020 14:36

Well done maz thats
a great achievement/Sv!

I’ve just bought a pair of jeans 2inches down on the waist!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2020 15:46

Congratulations on your SV, Maz
and your waist NSV, What

Lovely to read the progress Smile

It's OK sometimes not to eat the full calories, Waspie if you didn't feel particularly hungry
but always eat them up if you do feel hungry - so don't deliberately plan to go under.

Those healthy menus sound delic, what
and an excellent step for your new healthier WOL

Yep, I have my 👀 on you, listening Grin
< adjusts 🛰 >

That sounds a much more comfortable office setup, moonlight
And a sensible manager

Well done on the No Snacking, Clutter

Personally on NFDs, I usually have:
protein
lots of veg including raw veg
moderate portions of healthy oils, wholegrains, beans, yoghurt / quark
small portions of fruit & nuts

e.g. today's NFD program:
B: Small bowl of porridge made with water & cashew milk, plus a few berries & flaked almonds

  • 45 min walk outside L: Grilled salmon fillets, big mixed salad with olive oil & vinegar dressing, rye bread crusts
  • Evening yoga - D: Chicken, bean & leek soup, tbsp of quark on top, no other accompaniments Drinks: 1.7 l water, 2 x hibiscus tea, 1 x black coffee
OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 10/03/2020 16:40

waspie
16:8 is pretty easy for me as I was never a breakfast person
its the no late night cheese that I have to remember
and then doing MFP makes me get rid of the empty alcohol calories well most of them

So long as I am disciplined I can lose 1-2 lb a week (and feel much better for it)
my knees are giving me grief which is my you are overweight trigger

moonlight1705 · 10/03/2020 21:50

Ended up on 573 which I'm pleased about.

Also went to a taekwondo class tonight and it turns out that jumping jacks are hard to do once the pelvic floor is shot. Couldn't do the exercise properly as spent it all trying not to wet myself. Blush

harriethoyle · 10/03/2020 21:58

Excellent @MazDazzle and @Whattodowithaminute!

Kitchen closed on 599 which is fab. Well done @moonlight my fellow faster Grin

Clutterfreeintraining · 11/03/2020 05:08

Thanks for sharing your meal plan/tips, everyone. I definitely need to be more organised and set up the 30 day rota I planned to last month Blush.

Today is my weigh day and I'm down 1lb. If I'm being totally honest, I'd hoped it would be more but as it's totm, maybe I'll see a bigger loss next week.

My goal for the next week is to increase water intake.

Anyone fasting today? I've planned to tomorrow but will have a really busy day today so I'm wondering whether to bring it forward a day.

SydneyCarton · 11/03/2020 07:12

Well done on the SV clutter, a pound is a good steady loss. I’m fasting today as well and it’s a busy day, meetings scheduled more or less from 11 to 2 (or maybe even 3 🤔). I always find it much easier when there’s a lot on to distract me. I also need to increase my water intake; I used to be pretty good at knocking it back but the cold weather just makes me want more tea ☕️!

Good luck to anyone else fasting today SmileSmile

OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2020 07:40

Morning all

FD for me today and I have a stir fry planned for dinner tonight, yum!

Well done to maz and clutter on the SVs!

harriethoyle · 11/03/2020 07:51

@Clutterfreeintraining I always lose between a kilo and a kilo and a half on a 2 FD week EXCEPT for my totm which keeps me annoyingly static 🤷🏻‍♀️ I just count it as a positive because it's not a gain tbh

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2020 10:45

Well done on your FD, Moonlight, Harriet

Good luck today on your FD, MrD
Yum to stirfry - and keep drinking water !

How are the knees today, Listening ?

Your TKW class is an excellent choice, moonlight
Martial arts are super for fitness and can also burn a lot of fat over the weeks

Congratulations on your SV, Clutter
You are making progress

Around totm, women retain water, which is then released on the FD following the end of totm
So you might see a bigger loss then - if you can resist totm munchies !

However, unless you have a lot to lose, about 1lb weekly is the average
Even then, people may lose more initially, but the weekly calorie deficit with 2 FDs & 5 NFDs usually gives a weekly deficit of on average 3,000 calories, which gives theoretically 1lb loss

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2020 11:20

Oh and I've 2 men building in my 6 new lounge / diner cupboards

They are massive - cupboards, not the blokes although they are very muscley SmileGrin -
so will hold all the stuff in my remaining boxes

So a lot of drilling and kerfuffle,
then I have to empty and sort all the boxes

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2020 13:01

yay to getting those cupboards bigchoc - must be good to know you are almost done with the boxes!

most definitely glugging away!

OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2020 17:49

Kitchen closed on 546, and lunch for tomorrow already prepped with the leftover noodles / chicken etc

OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2020 17:52

Its b2b tomorrow btw, leftover stir fry for lunch then chicken casserole for dinner. Kids will have with some kind of carbs and I'll have as it is.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2020 18:18

Well done, MrD
and good luck on your b2b tomorrow

Well, my cupboards took just over 8 hours to fit (minus lunch hour) even though they arrived basically assembled
They really did an amazing job, pride in their work to get everything to the 0.5 mm

  • but were a bit leisurely and deliberate !

The measurements to get them all parallel to the walls and floor

  • which are a bit skew, being well over 200 years old ! Grin - and setting up the massive wall feature plate

They insisted on taking apart my TV back, to realign it, because they weren't happy with the viewing angle once it was on their cuboard Shock

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2020 18:40

Oh my goodness, that sounds like a right palaver!

Whattodowithaminute · 11/03/2020 18:47

That’s sounds like a mission of a day bigchic but great to get the cupboards all in/hopefully now you can get out of those last boxes.
Well done on a good FD MrD sounds like you’re really well set for a good b2b tomorrow. I’ll be joining you for a FD tomorrow.
Well done on the 1lb down clutter that’s good steady progress and all in the right direction.

EssentialHummus · 11/03/2020 19:39

Whew bigchoc, glad they’re done! We’re also in an ancient building here; something will always be skew, but you can usually choose what Grin.

EssentialHummus · 11/03/2020 19:39

Well done clutter!

ListeningQuietly · 11/03/2020 19:48

BigChoc
No gym today - had some visiting to do - so had lunch but in the interests of economy and our waistlines, just a scotch egg sat in the sunshine and a cup of tea.
Light supper and early night beckon.
Back to the pool tomorrow and by the feel of my waistband its working Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2020 21:02

Well done on the waist NSV, listening

Hummus The building - and my apartment - has its quirks, but it has a friendly soul, imo
I feel totally at home
How are you doing so far - tum ok ?

Tomorrow will be a sorting out & unpacking day, what
I should also have a lot of clothes to donate to St Johns nearby

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 11/03/2020 21:13

I’m feeling good bigchoc but food wise finding it much harder to be moderate all the time - so I’m resorting to “just don’t have junk in the house”. Luckily we’re in the guts of London here so I’m sure we’ll be quarantined soon, will stop me heading to the shops Grin.

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