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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 12:51

Congratulations on your SV, what
*
clutter* Remember that "FDs are never 'failed', merely postponed a little" Wink

Good luck today, clutter, MrD, harriet, Waspie
The menus all sound good

Another sunny day
I've had a relaxing Rhine walk after my body styling class

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 09/03/2020 13:09

I'm back on the MyFitnessPal and am determined to get my arse in gear.
I have 10lb to lose between now and the end of April.
The world has gone mad so I shall try to be sane

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 13:14

Good luck, Listening
Focus on yourself and let the world go mad

OP posts:
Waspie · 09/03/2020 13:23

Thanks Clutter - your walk sounds equal to a decent run or gym session to me Grin The fields and footpaths near me are still boggy and I try to focus on the extra calories I must be burning having to drag my mud encrusted boots out of the gloopy mud and along the trails with the dog. Plus chasing a muddy dog around the garden with a hose afterwards - who needs a treadmill?!

Enjoy your walk and body styling class BCF.

Good luck Listening. That sounds do-able to me.

Clutterfreeintraining · 09/03/2020 15:08

BigChoc - ha, ha, ok - well, my postponed fast is going a lot better than yesterday's, thankfully Grin I'm a bit tired now though. Just waiting for the next round of children to come out of school. Think it'll be a very early night for me.

Good luck, Listening. I'm finding this is definitely helping to ignore the chaos going on around me.

Waspie - it was a full workout - sounds like tour's is too Grin

80skid · 09/03/2020 16:14

Hi everyone, sounds like you're all staying active and cracking on Grin
This is my first Monday fast, going so far and I am sitting here in one of 4 new M & S bras that actually fit, having ordered at 10 last night and collected from a local shop today. Hurrah! Well overdue and there's part of me that is even pleased I know they won't fit for that long as the weight comes off. I'm wearing a 40D but have 32DD waiting in the cupboard from when I was in good shape before....
I have a friend coming to stay tomorrow. We will eat, drink and be merry with a clear conscience, easy on the carbs, probably avoiding sweet treats. 16/8 Wednesday, FD Thursday, 16/8 Friday. Happy days

SydneyCarton · 09/03/2020 16:36

Monday FD here - tea and water so far, and something involving cooked chicken for dinner as I did a roast yesterday and have lots of leftovers. I think maybe fajitas with peppers and onions and a bit of sour cream. Almost tempted not to go out for a walk at lunchtime, but I'm glad I did - it was clear and even a bit sunny, I got engrossed in a podcast and burnt 186 active calories Smile

Weekend was a bit of a mixed bag - I did my third C25K run and it went very well, but there were a bit too many biscuits and sweet things (possibly due to TOTM). I am generally okay at resisting snacks during the week, but at the weekend everything seems to slide a bit...

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 18:46

Great bra NSV, 80s
Soon that bra will be falling down ....

How are you doing with the FD, 80s, Sydney ?

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 09/03/2020 19:47

Kitchen closed on around 530 today so all good. Drank more water again too.

Next FD is weds

Clutterfreeintraining · 09/03/2020 19:53

Well done!!

I've just had my lasagne...worth the wait and the burnt mouth (because I was too impatient to let it cool down Hmm!).

Going to bed now so I'm nowhere near the kitchen Grin

I hope everyone else has got on ok today.

harriethoyle · 09/03/2020 21:05

Kitchen closed on 560 and I'm going to b2b tomorrow I think. Work was insanely busy today and will be the same tomorrow so I might as well capitalise on it! Well done my fellow fasters, sounds like we've all nailed today 🙌

80skid · 09/03/2020 21:17

A good day thank you @Bigchoc. I'm keeping a note of NSV and compliments I receive in the notes on my phone. I know I have a long journey ahead, but apparently I look fabulous WinkBlush

MazDazzle · 09/03/2020 22:14

I’m sure you do 80s! Well done. What a lovely idea.

Well done everyone!

Successful FD here and I felt so strong during this morning’s PT session after a good weekend. I ate out on Sat and Sun, but that was my only meal of the day and I only had 2 cocktails.

I’ve given myself a mini-target of losing 9lb. That will take me down to the top end of my comfort zone.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 22:29

Well done on your FD, MrD, Clutter, Harriet, Maz, 80s

Great idea to record your NSVs, 80s 👍
One for everyone to copy

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 22:29

You sound really positive, maz
Good luck on your mini-goal

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 10/03/2020 06:59

FD finished on 572, went with chicken kievs in the end as they needed eating, with new potatoes and broccoli. I think I’ll have the chicken fajitas for lunch today instead.

Good luck with your b2b harriet and well done everyone on yesterday’s FD Flowers

OohMrDarcy · 10/03/2020 07:22

Morning all,

Scales moving in the right direction happily here.

Well done to all yesterdays fabulous fasters! Anyone fasting today?
NFD for me, I'm out for lunch so will be sensible, and have a low cal dinner tonight to balance.
Water water water!!

harriethoyle · 10/03/2020 07:53

I am! Had a wholemeal thin with marmite for breakfast, ham sandwich for lunch and fishcake and broccoli for dinner, all being well...

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2020 08:49

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
yes to water !

Well done on your FD, Sydney

Good luck, Harriet and any other Tuesday fasters

Ug, very grey & rainy
Don't know if I'll get my walk today, although I managed 2 yesterday

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 10/03/2020 09:33

I'm on a FD today too so will join in. I've got my soup again for lunch which is nice and low calorie and then have fishcakes and peas for dinner later.

I'm now in a new office with my new manager so the temptation to run out at lunch and get snacks is vastly less - thank goodness!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2020 11:10

Good luck to you today, moonlight
Your new office and manager should be a help - do they seem nice ?

OP posts:
Waspie · 10/03/2020 12:24

Hello everyone. Very successful FDs all round yesterday. Great stuff Grin

Mine was okay but I ended on just 320 calories. I think because I realised that I had chicken and noodle variations for both meals so changed dinner to plain scrambled eggs with mushrooms fried in a dry pan but no accompaniment, which was too few calories. I did feel okay though and I haven't overeaten this morning so hopefully I haven't done any harm.

Good luck with your b2b harriet and your FD today moonlight and all other Tuesday fasters.

ListeningQuietly · 10/03/2020 12:54

I'm not doing strict 5:2 but am doing MFP and 16:8 and just knowing that BigChoc is watching is working ;-)
Tin of soup out of the back of the cupboard for lunch - 94 calories. That will last me till supper Smile

Clutterfreeintraining · 10/03/2020 13:19

Good luck Tuesday fasters!!

NFD for me today and I'm managing to keep away from the snacks (mostly Blush). It certainly helps that I'm not allowed sugary food.

What kind of things do you all eat on NFDs?

moonlight1705 · 10/03/2020 13:31

BCF my new manager started a couple of weeks ago and was horrified that her team were spread out across various rooms in the building. She bought some new desks and we are now squished into her office - it is so helpful to actually be able to talk to your boss in a chatty way instead of having 'meetings' to catch up. I quite like my little corner!

Clutter I have a rotating set of menus but generally love things like cottage pie with lots of veg, chillis, one pot stuff that will give left overs. We always have a Sunday roast with left overs as Monday night meal so that takes care of two days.

Lunches are much harder for me - maybe I need some of that chicken and noodles like waspie