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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Clutterfreeintraining · 06/03/2020 08:31

NSV - just checked my blood sugar and it's 5.9. I've had a 'bury my head' attitude towards my health for so long and cutting sugar has had a real breakthrough moment for me. I really hope I don't get sidetracked and that I properly get back onto the 5:2 wagon.

Waspie · 06/03/2020 09:36

You even sound more upbeat BCF - amazing Grin

That's very good What, particularly with a swim and a B2B too. I always find swimming makes me really hungry and, worse, crave salty snacks like crisps or peanuts.

Well done moonlight that's right on the spot. I know what you mean about giving people faces, I do that sometimes too Smile

Good work Clutter. I can't do a Sunday FD as we tend to do a Sunday roast which I look forward to as the only time the family are in the same place at the same time for more than half an hour! But if you can BCF says it's a really good day to fast. And she is the guru (with great hair Grin ). I use mfp so I can't help on the alternative app. I don't think it's ideal for IF diets but it does help me keep track of my meals and I find it useful.

Congratulations on you SV Starling. I know what you mean by being hungry all the time having reduced your intake even on non-FDs. I do think that often it's habit and it's breaking the habit that's the difficult part. One bad habit I'd fallen into was a biscuit with a cup of tea at about 4pm. I didn't need it but I enjoyed it and I'm having to fight that craving every day still!

Hope the haircut goes well Sydney. Your hair sounds much like mine - fine but lots of it. I've got a long bob too; it's a good style for fine hair according to my hairdresser. Well done on your Lent abstinence. 37 days will pass in a flash Wink

I ended FD yesterday on 420 calories. I enjoyed the mushroom omelette I made; it made a nice change to tuna salad! I do need to investigate some other low calorie meals now that I'm more comfortable with my FD routine.

Anyone fasting today? Good luck to those who are Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 06/03/2020 12:44

Well done on your FD, Waspie^
and good luck to any Friday fasters

For those who are considering fasting on a Sunday, you can still have a roast, but be flexible:

Have lots of lean meat - cut off all fat - several different non -starchy veg, a teasp horseradish / mint sauce, optionally a small boiled potato
One plate only, no seconds, no pud

The rest of the family have roast potato, yorkshire, gravy, cauli cheese plus seconds & pud

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 06/03/2020 23:25

Completed my second fast day of the week today.

I’m so cold! Off to bed to snuggle up with my electric blanket.

Well done to all of the other tasters!

moonlight1705 · 07/03/2020 09:14

Just shows if I do FD properly then it works. I lost nearly a kg this week (0.9kg) so really pleased.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2020 09:34

Congratulations on your SV, moonlight
Really encouraging for you

Well done on your FD, Maz
I hope you are nice & warm now

It's a lovely sunny day here, Smile so I'm off for a Rhine walk as soon as I finish my cuppa
Spin class this afternoon and I'll do some weights before

OP posts:
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 07/03/2020 10:10

Love the Rhine images you give us on here BCF. It’s a bit grey and miserable in the South East. We’ve got family coming round for lunch and dinner and there’s going to be wine and pudding so I’m eating everyone but focussing on portion size today. It’s a NFD and I’ve done ok so far this week so fingers crossed!

Some great positive vibes on here this week.

I’ve had a monster of a week work wise but the project I’m on finishes on Wednesday so light at end of tunnel. And I’m pleased to say I’ve more or less stuck to 5/2 throughout.

Normally work stress is the first thing that hits my weight/eating as I tend to turn to endless coffee and biscuits as pick me ups!

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 07/03/2020 10:11

eating everyone Grin GrinGrin I mean everything.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2020 13:26

"eating everyone" Shock
Phew, I was worried about your NFD !

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 07/03/2020 14:00

I wa going to say that if you ate everybody then your portion control may be slipping Grin

Just been to get DD her first pair of shoes and had her scream the shop down. I did not get cake after but came home and had my nice healthy lunch.

Whattodowithaminute · 07/03/2020 14:06

Well done on your loss moonlight
Enjoy the Rhine bigchoc sounds delightful and a great reminder of why you retired there I’m sure!

I’ve just menu planned the week and think I will have to try my first Sunday FD tomorrow-eeek! So Sunday and Thursday is t he plan for this week but hoping this is the kick I need to get the scales going down rather than staying steady!
Do we have any Saturday fasters? Good luck if so!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2020 20:00

Well done for resisting cake with your poor ears (and nerves) ringing, moonlight
You'll have a photo to record the moment without the sound effects !

You are of course right about portion control for those who eat others Grin

Good luck tomorrow, what
I'll be joining you

I find Sunday FDs quite easy, because Germany mostly closes down on Sundays,
e.g. all shops closed by law

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 08/03/2020 07:50

Sending positive fasting vibes bigchoc will have water, bovril and coffee until dinner; salt and pepper chicken...mmm

Clutterfreeintraining · 08/03/2020 14:14

Oops, I forgot I was going to fast today Blush

AF arrived today (wasn't expecting it for another week) which explains the extreme McDonald's cravings. I've managed to not give in so far and am confident that I can still come in close to target.

Good luck Sunday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2020 14:56

Good luck, what, clutter

That's good you remembered, clutter

  • totm trying to work its evil on your memory !

I did fasted morning spin (with black coffee) and some heavy lifts
Omelette with salad for lunch
Off for a walk now in the sun Smile

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 08/03/2020 19:16

Hope you enjoyed your Rhine walk bigchoc and that you’ve had a good day clutter I’m on track for a 510 day but it’s been hard and I’ve been pretty short tempered for the last hour pushed to the limit by our 3yo...

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2020 19:35

Yep, thanks, lots of sun, swans & dogs
Had some chicken & leek soup for supper. Kitchen now closed

what If you clean your teeth right after supper, it will stop them grinding at the 3-year-old Grin
and also reduce the temptation to nibble.

How are you doing, clutter ?

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 08/03/2020 21:25

FD fail here Blush
Will have another go tomorrow and be more organised.
Bigchoc - do you do a spin class or at home? Your afternoon sounds delightful Smile
What - well done on your FD...I work with small children and find it so hard to fast on a work day. You should receive double Sv/nsv for fasting with small people in tow Grin

OohMrDarcy · 09/03/2020 07:24

Monday morning weigh in of 14st 6.4lbs 🙄

New plan starts today with a FD.

Will check in properly later

harriethoyle · 09/03/2020 08:31

@Clutterfreeintraining @OohMrDarcy I'm on a FD too - willpower fist bump!

Whattodowithaminute · 09/03/2020 08:45

Oh that’s frustrating MrD you have done it b fire and you will do it again. Good luck for a positive FD.
I’m 1lb down so there is some reward for the difficult day yesterday! NFD here with a swim and PT session for this evening.
Good luck Monday fasters.

Clutterfreeintraining · 09/03/2020 08:59

MrD & Harriet - fingers crossed for a good FD today

What - yay for 1lb off!!

I've managed to swerve the toast temptation so far. Had a swim before work and might get out in the sunshine for an hour before it disappears Smile

Waspie · 09/03/2020 09:38

Great SV moonlight and good for you resisting the cake! Hope your DD loves her new shoes.

Love that you wanted to eat everyone hands Grin I hope you had a lovely family day after your stressful work week.

Hope you enjoyed your FDs hands and BCF. I'm joining you clutter, harriet and MrDarcy in fasting today. What's on your menus? I've got black coffee for breakfast, chicken noodle soup for lunch and chicken with stir fried veges and a few noodles for dinner. I've realised writing that down that it's rather chicken noodle centred. Meal plan fail there!

Well done what

Good luck Monday fasters!

Clutterfreeintraining · 09/03/2020 11:04

Waspie - your menu sounds fine to me Grin

I've just had my first cup of tea and am about to walk up to the next village to collect a lo from nursery. Currently have 2 sleepers so will likely be pushing them uphill in the double buggy (unless one wakes up and walks for a bit!!) - at least it's downhill on the way home.

Lunch is going to be tuna and salad. Dinner is going to be a small portion of lasagne and a big salad.

OohMrDarcy · 09/03/2020 12:42

Good luck to everyone else fasting today - lots of us in the zone.

Just had a subway chicken salad with a little light mayo for approx 270 cals. Will have a 1 egg omelette tonight to finish me off.