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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
SydneyCarton · 04/03/2020 23:09

FD done on 656. Could have brought it in lower but I just needed a bit extra energy to deal with the children Blush. Legs feeling okay after yesterday’s run, and also got out for a 2.5 mile walk at lunchtime. Weigh in tomorrow ....

Well done to the other Wednesday fasters Flowers

Segregate What’s the texture of the jackfruit like? I assume it absorbs the flavour of whatever seasoning you have with it, like the bbq one you had. It always looks like pulled pork to me

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2020 23:35

Well done on the FD and exercise, Sydney
Good luck with your weigh-in

OP posts:
SegregateMumBev · 05/03/2020 06:35

The texture was quite pleasant! Not as chewy as pulled pork, but certainly better than slippery tofu Grin

SydneyCarton · 05/03/2020 07:48

9 st 11.5 lbs at weigh in, so one pound down from last week and very pleased with that. Probably due to the fact that DS has stolen half my toast every NFD this week at breakfast Hmm

Good luck to anyone fasting today Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 08:13

Congratulations on your SV, Sydney

  • and good on your DS for helping Grin
OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 05/03/2020 08:32

Congratulations sydney!

Checking in for FD2 for b2b. Planning on only having dinner but may adjust that if I’m struggling later.
Good luck Thursday fasters

moonlight1705 · 05/03/2020 08:37

Congrats sydney on that.

I'm on a FD today as well what and hopefully it will be as good as Tuesday.

Whattodowithaminute · 05/03/2020 09:39

The chaos of world book day has pushed me to a small one egg omelette already for breakfast...

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 09:52

Good luck, what, moonlight and any other Thursday fasters

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 05/03/2020 13:34

Hi everyone.
I know I'm being very disorganised but I've just decided to make today a FD (first for a while). I've had tuna and salad for lunch with half a wrap.
Having strong sugar cravings today so thought if I turn it into a fast day it would help me not give in to the sugar - probably a strange logic but we'll see how it goes Smile

Good luck Thursday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 14:08

Good luck, clutter

I've decided I'm going to enjoy new experiences in retirement Grin
When I went for a trim today, I added an undercut (to my short grey hair,) first time ever
I really like it

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 05/03/2020 14:11

Sounds lovely bigchoc! I have mad curly hair and a year ago decided to cut one side very short and leave the rest to grow a bit wild. I was terrified but have had lots of compliments since. (And it saves on brushing Grin)

Clutterfreeintraining · 05/03/2020 14:20

Ooh, @BigChocFrenzy, I briefly considered an undercut before me haircut last weekend. I'd let my very thick, grey hair grow for about 2 1/2 years with the intention of donating it once it got long enough but none of the charities want grey hair Sad. I've now had about 4in taken off but it's a very boring style. Need a bit of an overhaul I think. Maybe once I've lost some weight.
Hummus- sounds fantastic!!

Waspie · 05/03/2020 14:28

Checking in! I haven't read the posts I've missed yet but I'll catch up now.

I'm fasting today - going okay so far (helped by work being manic). Cup-a-soup for lunch and I'm planning mushroom omelette with some salad for dinner.

Good luck to everyone else fasting today Smile

Waspie · 05/03/2020 15:12

Argh World Book Day - What I feel your pain. I thought all that would be over now that DS is at secondary but no, he announces at 5.30pm yesterday that he wants to go as Atticus Finch! Shock We settled on Crowley (Good Omens) as the black garb and black sunglasses were easily available. Atticus next year perhaps Smile

Well done on your SV Sydney Flowers and on starting Couch to 5Km - good for you!

MrD and Starling you both sound very organised!

I'm glad you like your new 'do BFC. New lifestyle, new hairstyle Grin

Hummus your hair sounds lovely. I wish I had decent hair - mine is fine and curly in some places but not others. Horrible hair. I tend to just wear it tied back or use straighteners.

I weighed myself on Saturday and had lost a kilo (following 2.5 weeks of no loss at all) so I'm very pleased. 11 full days until our civil partnership ceremony which is my first target date.

Waspie · 05/03/2020 15:13

BFC should of course have been BCF (apologies!)

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 18:43

Congratulations on your SV, Waspie

You must be getting excited with your big day approaching
If you take a break, remember to write down the date of your next planned FD - before you go

That sounds fun, Hummus
I'll add it to my list of cuts to try
I was very relaxed about how my undercut would look, as I'm shameless my hair grows back quickly
It is even better than I hoped - there was always the chance that my hair was hiding a wonky head shape Grin

Go for it at your next trim, clutter 🤛🏼
It made my grey hair more interesting, as I have different shades
I feel like the cool kid at 63 Grin

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 05/03/2020 18:51

Congratulations on your loss waspie that’s a great achievement and I’m sure you’ll feel great for the civil partnership with that.
Hair cut sound great bcf it’s good to have something new every now and again. How’s the boxes situation? Making progress?

Kitchen closed on 630 so a good b2b day I think, a good swim today as well, I’ve relatively recently started swimming again and have increased distance by 500m or so within my half an hour slot so feeling positive with that too.
Right bath and bed for the kids then I think I’ll do the same.
How’s the day gone waspie, clutter, moonlight and any other Thursday fasters?

moonlight1705 · 05/03/2020 19:00

I'm just waiting for my dinner to be done and it will then be a 542 day so pretty pleased.

Well done waspie and all in time for the big day Grin

It's funny to hear you all describe your looks/hair etc as in my head everyone is around my age for some reason or I've assigned you a friend's face for ease. Smile

Clutterfreeintraining · 05/03/2020 20:28

I've just done a rough calculation and I think I'm up to 780 cals. Not great but good enough considering my disorganised start to the day Grin

Might have another go on Sunday.

BCF - I definitely need to do something different with it!!

StarlingSong · 05/03/2020 21:18

Weigh in this week is showing a loss of 0.8kg (1.76lbs) so everything is moving in the right direction! Only issue is that I'm SO hungry all the time - which in turn is making me grouchy (poor DH and DCs). Obviously I was eating way over my TDEE previously and MFP is showing me that I actually need much less food than I think.

Am loading up on protein and veg mostly with some carbs and loads of water too. Hoping it's just going to take my body a week or two to get used to my new lighter menu.

Congrats on the SVs Sydney and Waspie!

New hairdo sounds fab BCF - funny how a change like that can make you feel like a whole new person Smile

Nearly there Thursday fasters - well done!

SydneyCarton · 05/03/2020 22:45

StarlingSong That’s a brilliant loss! I know what you mean about the grouchiness, bedtimes on my FDs are often very fraught but the relief when they’re all finally asleep (or at least quiet) and I can finally eat.

I have a haircut lined up tomorrow, funnily enough, but no undercuts here as my hair is quite fine (although there’s a lot of it). Aiming for a blunt long bob and should be there in another few months, tomorrow is just to neaten it up in the meantime.

Hanging in there with my booze and crisps-free Lent, only another 37 days to go Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 23:33

Well done, what, moonlight, clutter

Good for you with Lent, Sydney
My hair is fine too, but the undercut works, just doesn't look as dramatic as some.

Congratulations on your SV, Starling
mfp has been a real shock for many here, so you're in good company

If you are feeling very hungry on NFDs, some tips (allergies etc allowing):

Obviously NEVER snack or graze between meals,
but you can experiment to see whether you do better with 2 / 3 / 4 meals

Boost protein and cut right back on sugary treats and booze.
Boost beans, peas, lentils are these are good for stabilising blood sugar

Drink more water and cut right back on fizzy drinks (except sparkling water with a slice)
even diet ones - they can increase hunger later

Avoid fruit juice, smoothies, dried fruit, breakfast cereals, deep-fried food

Check your carb portion per meal - typical portion
80g cooked weight of pasta / rice
100g potato
1-2 slices bread or 1 medium roll
If you double carb, then halve the portion of each

Swap white rice for brown or red, or quinoa
Swap white bread for 100% wholemeal or rye
Swap mash for baked or boiled potato

Exercise:
Only helps if you don't eat more calories than the extra you burn !

Avoid long (> 60 minutes) steady state cardio sessions because these make you hungrier, especially swimming
Instead, go for HIIT or lifting weights, plus walks outside on your restdays

OP posts:
StarlingSong · 06/03/2020 02:07

Thank you for all of the good info BCF. Good reminders and things to keep in mind. Will keep referring back to this information if I'm continuing to feel hungry between meals on NFDs.

I admire your commitment this Lent Sydney. Enjoy your haircut tomorrow!

Clutterfreeintraining · 06/03/2020 07:29

Does anyone have any recommendations for a weight loss tracking app that's not MFP please?
I've just re-downloaded it and I don't like the new layout. I'm hoping for something a bit simpler that's just about the numbers.

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