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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
badger82 · 03/03/2020 13:49

Checking in for a FD today. Doing well so far but have both kids at home so may be tough as bed and bath approaches 🥴

Saw a post from a celeb yesterday and she was complaining as someone had suggested she had an eating disorder. She said she was a healthy weight - 53kg at 5'3"....that seems so light! I'd be delighted when I hit 63 never mind 53....found it slightly depressing. Sub 60 would be my ideal.

moonlight1705 · 03/03/2020 15:11

badger, 53kg is the amount of weight I probably have to lose in total to be a normal BMI depressingly.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2020 16:38

Moon You can also get where you want to be, but it does take time
Just rejoice at each minigoal
e.g. MrD gives herself ace non-food rewards for each of these

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 03/03/2020 17:54

The good gym sounds like a great initiative-one to log.
Stay strong badger you can do it.
NFD here and it’s not gone the best-oh well a new day tomorrow-b2b planned for Wednesday/Thursday and just want to get back into the swing of things. Less than 5 weeks until holidays!!!

ListeningQuietly · 03/03/2020 18:36

Checking in.
Not losing but not gaining either.
Sunshine helps.
DH and I have decided to eat vegan food for a couple of days a week to mix things up a bit.

moonlight1705 · 03/03/2020 19:14

Ended up today on 572 as decided to have an extra egg with dinner to fill me up for the whole evening.

Settling down now with some white tea (no milk) and Netflix. Smile

How have you Tuesday fasters done today?

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 03/03/2020 19:51

Hi all

Tuesday faster here. Just finishing my B2B!

I think I’m about within 600 across each day.

Had some ham, rocket and a tiny bit of cheese for lunch. Veggie soup for dinner. Three Blush Diet Cokes....I don’t know what went wrong there, I never usually have so many. And about a pint of black coffee for breakfast!

Now I just need to get thru the evening with no eating.

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 03/03/2020 19:52

Going to plan my NFD for tomorrow too so I actually eat breakfast and proper meals and avoid snacking.

SydneyCarton · 03/03/2020 20:21

Well, I went out and got run 1 of week 1 of the couch to 5k app done and out of the way! Not as bad as I had feared but I did have a bad stitch for about half the way round which never used to be an issue before. Hopefully just a one-off as feet, legs, lungs etc all felt okay. Fingers crossed I’m not too stiff tomorrow 🤞

Well done on the b2b hands. I envy your Netflix moonlight, the bloody football is on here Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2020 21:37

Well done, Moon, hands

sts is better than gaining, Listening
Have you been keeping within NHS alcohol limits every day & week?
If so, then it sounds like NFD portion size has crept up - or peri / meno is working its evil on your metabolism

That's excellent you've restarted running, Sydney
You'll soon regain your fitness and nail the 5k

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 03/03/2020 22:09

Well done sydney on doing the first week!

I managed to get rid of DH as he's got a season ticket to West Brom so went there to watch the football otherwise I think I would have been in the same position Smile

StarlingSong · 03/03/2020 23:12

Hi all!

I posted a couple of times last year and received some wonderful advice from BCF and just wanted to pop back here for some accountability.

I started 5:2 in Oct 18 and have been following my plan (with some breaks) until late December losing around 10kg. Then Christmas came plus Summer holidays (I'm in Australia) and my days circled in my diary to start fasting again came and went and my eating went out of control! So now it's March and I'm finally recommitting to my fasting plan - better late than never I guess.

I've been losing and gaining the same 3kg (6lb) for the last 6months so need some accountability to make it through this self inflicted plateau! I still have about 10kg (22lb) to lose to make it to goal weight. Really want to get there some time this year and finally make it into maintenance.

Current plan:
500 cal 2x days/week
16:8 other 5 days at TDEE
MFP in March
No snacking, low alcohol and fewer sweet treats.

Today is my 2nd FD of the week so will be having water and plain rooibos tea until dinner when I'll have an omelette with tomato, mushrooms and spinach and maybe a little cheese if I have enough calories.

Best of luck to all of you fasting today!

OohMrDarcy · 04/03/2020 08:04

Morning all

Not been around as been crazy busy - plus had a weekend in London with my girl as part of her birthday present. Had a lovely time, ate LOTS but also walked over 20 miles according to my garmin (and my feet!)

I'm still pissing about with the same half stone since the christmas gain settled - down / up a few pounds constantly so I'm making a new plan.

Back to MFP everything from today, back to weighing 3 x a week to keep track and after this week where I can only fit in 1 FD, I'll do a couple of weeks of 4:3 again to help make sure I'm staying in control. I have just under 6 weeks until holiday with the kids so I can make an impact in that time easily (she says, fingers crossed).

I know my FDs are fine its the NFDs / not drinking enough water I suspect, its gone on long enough that I can't really call it a plateau now.

Also going to commit to posting here more again as we all know how helpful that is.

Meal plan is done for the week for dinners. I need to go through and do lunches now too - as that can be the downfall.

On the super positive side, I'm into month 15 and I'm still fasting regularly Smile just got to get a grip on what else is going on so I start consistently losing again!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2020 09:41

Welcome back, Starling
That's a sensible plan, so good luck

It's happened to many - the main risk with holidays is that people don't return promptly to the WOL
That's why I now always recommend before any holiday or break from fasting, that people note down the first FD when they'll resume - and 100% stick to it, barring illness

Your plan for NFDs sounds good too, MrD
You always seem to nail the FDs on the nose

That's good you avoided telly football, moon
Boooring !

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 04/03/2020 11:01

Welcome starling
I think i will join you in your enhanced efforts MrD! It sounds like we both have the same pre holiday boost required and I know it’s the NFD which have run away with me a bit. Hopefully a couple of less disrupted weeks coming and that will take me under the 11st 7 barrier, it would be great to have a healthy BMI for holidays...

harriethoyle · 04/03/2020 11:10

I'm fasting with you @StarlingSong - I think it's going to be a tough one because I'm already fricking STARVING 😭

badger82 · 04/03/2020 12:18

I'm fasting too. So far so good.....good luck Wednesday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2020 12:51

Good luck, Starling, harriet, badger
Drink more water !

OP posts:
badger82 · 04/03/2020 15:25

Thanks @bigchoc will do - managed to bat a craving away by doing 12 sun salutations. Swapping eating rubbish with yoga would be a good swap wouldn't it 🧘‍♀️

harriethoyle · 04/03/2020 18:39

Kitchen closed on 608. No sub 300 cal ready meals left in the supermarket on the way home 😢 poor planning on my part

StarlingSong · 04/03/2020 18:57

Nearly there now harriet and bager! Kitchen closed here on around 510 but it was a tough FD - felt absolutely starving around 3pm but a cup of hot water helped. Need to try some yoga next time Smile

MrD it sounds like we're having similar frustrations at the moment - your plan sounds great and I might also consider adding another FD into my week when it suits. Congrats on 15 months!

Thank you What Wishing you luck with getting to healthy BMI for the holidays, you can do it!

Have meal prepped a stir fry dinner for Thursday evening at around 315cal - am having lunch out with my Mum so will definitely be filling out the rest of my NFD cals there so happy to have a light dinner ready to go. Weekdays seem easy to stay under TDEE, it's the weekends that are going to be my challenge. Hoping that staying with 16:8 and also not snacking will make it easier for me.

Whattodowithaminute · 04/03/2020 19:14

Well done harriet, starling, hope the rest of the day has stayed strong badger
Still waiting for my dinner-beef stir fry planned only an hour to go-will close kitchen on 620-ready for b2b tomorrow. I actually hate doing b2b but sometimes it’s the only way to squeeze them in...
starling bigchoc often recommends a weekend FD which I’ve never managed yet but think would be of significant benefit as they are often my downfall or a day like yesterday where I hadn’t planned anything.

harriethoyle · 04/03/2020 19:19

I don't think I could cope with an FD on a Friday or Saturday but a Sunday might be doable 🤔

SegregateMumBev · 04/03/2020 20:28

Had this tonight-barbecue jackfruit, 116 Cal’s per pack. I’m not usually a bbq fan, but it was 25p in Tesco! Not too bad at all with cauli rice.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2020 22:39

Well done, Harriet, Starling, what, segregate, badger

That's a handy cheap meal with the cauli rice, segregate

badger With your sun salutations, you now have a tactic that works against cravings
Great idea to use yoga
I've recommended various exercise before, but yoga provides the calm which is really helpful

For those who've sts for months, as what says,
I recommend a weekend FD, because WEs tend to be the most indulgent days and hence the biggest "win" as an FD

I found this tactic useful several years ago in my early 5:2 days, when I had the um, problem that my user name suggests Blush

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