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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 02/03/2020 08:05

Good plans, Hands, what

OP posts:
Waspie · 02/03/2020 09:09

I'm fasting today too. My usual FD menu I think - black coffee for breakfast, soup for lunch and salad for dinner.

Good luck Monday fasters.

harriethoyle · 02/03/2020 10:14

I'm joining you @HandsDownRoundTheTown and @Waspie. It's my birthday today but I'm not feeling it at all so I figured I might as well do the usual Monday FD. So no cake for me! Cake

Waspie · 02/03/2020 11:14

Happy Birthday harriet Flowers

Save the Cake for Boxing Birthday tomorrow Grin

SegregateMumBev · 02/03/2020 11:18

Checking in for accountability. Boiled egg and watercress for lunch planned.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/03/2020 11:51

Happy Birthday, Harriet 💐
You're celebrating by having a healthy TLC day

Good luck, Waspie, Harriet, segregate and anyone else fasting

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 02/03/2020 12:01

Not checked in for a few days, came down with tonsillitis on Saturday. Temp was up at 41 felt very unwell. Will join back ASAP.

EssentialHummus · 02/03/2020 12:19

Oh dear inthe, wishing you a speedy recovery.

Happy birthday harriet!

noseovertail · 02/03/2020 15:59

Just checking in quickly.... happy birthday harriet

Fd today, will try and catch up later

SydneyCarton · 02/03/2020 16:39

Happy birthday harriet and hope you're feeling better inthethickofit

Back to my usual Monday fast after not managing any FDs last week due to one thing and another. I think I'll get some sweet potato and black bean chilli out of the freezer and have that with rice and a blob of sour cream. Tea and water so far.

I've also taken the plunge and bought new running shoes for the first time in....a while. I've run on and off, mostly off, for about 15 years now but it's never been something that's really stuck for me. I think, pre-children, because I could go whenever I liked, I ended up never going, whereas I'm hoping that post-kids and with limited available time I'll be forced out of the door as I can't put it off till later. Plus I want to establish some good habits to help keep me at target weight now I'm almost there.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/03/2020 19:56

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, inthethick 💐
but make sure you are fully recovered before fasting again

When you resume, best to start with a few healthy TLC NFDs:
no snacks, alcohol or junk
then see if you feel ready for an FD

Good luck, Nose

Enjoy your new runnings shoes, Sydney
Now you've the swish gear, you have to use it regularly !
To mix up the training, do you have a park run nearby ?

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 02/03/2020 20:07

Thanks guys. Kitchen has closed on 484 calories. Next FD will be Wednesday. Am looking forward to hot cross bun breakfast tomorrow Grin

@SydneyCarton I totally get that! I did a half marathon last October then my usual running path closed and before I knew it, it was 4 months since I'd last been running! Am waiting for the warmer weather to get going again...

BigChocFrenzy · 02/03/2020 20:50

Well done on your birthday FD, Harriet

In the 6.5 years I've been on these threads, I think that's the first EVER ! Grin

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 02/03/2020 21:03

🤣🤣🤣🙈

A Monday birthday is rubbish though isn't it? No one wants to go out on a Monday. Even I don't and it's my birthday!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/03/2020 21:44

I must admit, I stopped celebrating my birthday many years ago

I used to just bring a big tub of strawberries and some traditional (Germany) soft pretzels into work

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 02/03/2020 22:47

BigChoc The hardest part is getting out of the door! There is a park run about 15-20 minutes walk away, and I’m planning to start going once I’ve got a few runs under my belt.

Harriet I’ve never got as far as a half marathon, only 10K and that was years ago. Most of my running is on pavements so accessible all year round, I have no excuse for not doing it apart from laziness 😬

Kitchen closed on 554. I gave up the sweet potato chilli plan and went old school with spaghetti hoops on toast, a banana and a couple of rich tea biscuits.

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 02/03/2020 23:18

Happy Birthday Harriet. Hope you have some cake planned for a NFD this week.

I did my usual Monday here. Black coffee and loads of mint tea for breakfast; boiled egg and Parma ham for lunch; veg and lentil soup for tea.

Will do B2B as I have a very busy work day tomorrow so should be able to keep my head down and not think about food!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2020 07:12

Well done, Hands and good luck completing your b2b today

"The hardest part is getting out of the door!"

I also used to find it took so much willpower to get out in the fresh air, Sydney

That's a big reason why I moved to a flat right above the Rhine
The gorgeous view of the Rhine & the boats from my windows motivates me to get out and as soon as I step out of the door, I'm on the Rhine path

Before, I just stayed indoors too much - I knew I needed a really strong nudge not to be a houseplant !

Now I have daily walks and I'll resume jogging when the weather is warmer
(the gym is my main source of exercise)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2020 07:13

A running buddy could help, if you say take it in turns to go the other's house

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 03/03/2020 08:36

Happy birthday for yesterday harriet hope you had a nice day despite it being a Monday Grin

I'm on a FD today and got it planned out to perfection, just have to follow the plan and not deviate in any way. Need to kick start myself back into this again.

inthethickofit19 · 03/03/2020 09:41

Thanks for the advice BCF and well wishes everyone.

How long must I wait BCF before fasting? I know it's 'how long is a piece of string?' type of question.
I've been given 10 days antibiotics but I imagine I'll feel well enough before that. If I focus on eating healthy then can I resume before I finish the antibiotics?

EssentialHummus · 03/03/2020 10:08

harriet have you heard of Good Gym? They do things like organise outdoor gardening days in parks for people who want to get fit, or match runners with housebound elderly so your run comprises a jog to their house to drop off the Evening Standard or whatever. Nice way to keep motivation up!

SegregateMumBev · 03/03/2020 10:42

Sydney, get along to parkrun. You can jog/ walk it or even just walk. there will be a tail walker whose job it is to be last, and you should find everyone very supportive of all the -people taking part, not matter what their speed. And someone there might know if there's a couch 2 5 k programme in the area.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2020 13:01

inthethick I strongly recommend waiting until the day after you finish the course
In the meantime, concentrate on healthy habits

Good luck, moon
Having a clear plan should help a lot today, less thinking required

GoodGym sounds brilliant, hummus
Is it a new organisation ?

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 03/03/2020 13:18

It's been around for a few years in London bigchoc (I remember seeing their events/publicity in the City when I worked there), but afaik they are now trying to branch out.

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