5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Well done moonlight and Inthethick.

It's pay day Chez Wasp and we usually celebrate with a take away, but I've vetoed it. DS and DP may think we live in a democracy but they would be wrong

I've replaced take away with the slightly healthier alternative of spag bol. I'm going to use turkey mince rather than beef and see if anyone notices!

Good luck Friday fasters

That healthier option is good for your wallet too, waspie
win-win

The attitude to this way of eating is really kicking in now. I work in a small shop and am horrified at how much sugar people are eating, especially whilst complaining about ill health, mobility issues, diabetes etc. I've gone right off the thought of sweets etc and haven't had chocolate in ages as its not part of a meal so why would I break my fast? (That said, there may be gin tonight )
Thank you to everyone for the ongoing motivation and support - this is about health as well as weight loss!

That's a healthy habits NSV, 80s
Really important for longterm weight control

Lolol re democracy @Waspie

I'm 6kgs down since Jan 12th this morning although I have red wine and those amazing salt and black pepper mix m & s crisps planned for tonight. So may not maintain!

Have great weekends everyone. See you for Monday FDs

That’s an impressive loss harriet well done.
I’m planning on joining you for a Monday FD but we’ve just had guests announce they are joining us sun/mon so may be pushed back to Tuesday.

Congratulations on your SV, harriet
Good progress; you're in the fasting swing

But you're sooo wrong - no crisps can compare with Walkers Marmite crisps !

My wallet needs all the help it can get BigChoc

Well done harriet that's great enjoy your treats!

I'm trying to get to the point where I don't want the snacks too 80s. I don't like chocolate so that hasn't been an issue but, like harriet and BigChoc, I do have a soft spot for the salty snacks (doritos for me though) which are horribly high in salt, fat and carbs

I'll join you for fasting on Monday harriet and (possibly) minute

Enjoy your weekends.

Marmite crisps are an occasional treat - I buy a 6-pack once or twice per year from Amazon UK
but they are never snacks, only as part of a meal
e.g. I would have a packet with an open sandwich and soup

Avoid even "healthy" snacks like fruit, nuts or oatcakes
because they still keep insulin raised between meals

Why we shouldn't snack

Mosely and most other fasting experts recommend no snacking between meals

Snacks were popularised by BIg Food around 1980, to increase profits.
They also increased waistlines.

Even "healthy" snacks - like fruit or dipping veg - keep insulin raised and hence reduce the time in which your body can burn fat.
And the most common / tempting snacks are not even healthy

Also, human studies show that most people consume more calories in a 24-hour period if they snack,
because the reduction in meal size (if any) is usually less than the calories contained in all the snacks.

You can lose despite snacking, but it will be slower than without.
So, have any treats - lattes, alcohol, crisps, biscuits, even fruit - as part of a meal.

Broad definition of a snack is that it is less than 3-4 hrs away from a meal.

Snacks are ok for those who need to gain weight, e.g. underweight DC - but this applies to only a few in the West

Snacking has caused a fundamental change for most of the population, compared to many millennia of evolution

• almost no traditional eating culture includes snacking.

Each 24 hour day with snacks is now insulin-dominant (graph 2) instead of fasting-dominant (graph 1), see graphs from Dr Jason Fung:

Morning all
I'm fasting today - a maintenance 800 FD - anyone else ?

I'm off shortly for a Rhine walk, then this afternoon to the gym for weights room and a spin class

After our sudden massive snowstorm Thursday afternoon, yesterday was so sunny it melted nearly all of it
and today is a sunny 14C, but with 75 kph winds later

Well done on the loss inthethick and harriet

Waspie I’m a salty snack fan as well. I don’t have a hugely sweet tooth but crisps, peanuts, salt popcorn, mmmm. Given all these plus alcohol up for Lent, and it will be sooo hard!

Everyone back to what passes for normal in the Carton household, thankfully. DD2 has a birthday party this afternoon but apart from that I think we’ll stay in, the weather is still horrible, wind and rain forecast all day 🙄

Remember to only have these treats as part of a meal, not between meals
Then they are no longer "snacks"

Mosely and other fasting experts all strongly recommend never snack between meals
even "healthy" snacks like fruit

Morning BigChoc I am resisting snacking and treats although DP fell off the wagon last night and ate the last of DS's Lindt chocolate Santa's.

The weather you are having sounds marginally better than here in Berkshire. We have rain and strong winds. It could be far worse though. I took the dog out for a walk earlier and none of the fields or footpaths we habitually use are anything less than quagmires. On the plus side my Yew tree is looking better than it has for a year and the cherry is blossoming! Loads of daffodils out now too.

Enjoy your walk and gym classes

Hmmm I STS this week and think it is because I did a bit a snacking.

So today I am on a non FD but have already resisted a mid morning banana.

moon Cutting out all snacks between meals can be a big help

bigchoc I misread your last post as "cutting out all meals between snacks" and did a double-take .

The choc biscuit diet, Hummus 😂

Moon - I’ve had a slow one this week as well.

Have eaten quite a bit of crap on NFDs and I wonder if I’ve reached a bit of a natural plateau that I need to push through.

Next week am going to meal plan ferociously for my NFDs including treats within meals so I don’t mess around like I have this week.

But tonight just enjoying wine and crisps and getting back to it tomorrow.

It sounds useful to review progress & habits tomorrow, Hands

Many people find they can lose at first without changing "normal" eating on NFDs,
even if their "normal" includes a lot of crap, snacks, or booze.

However, to progress beyond that stage, most need to:

• Cut out all snacks between meals, even fruit or nuts, every NFD including WEs
• Be sensible about the portion & frequency of treats even as part of a meal. AIm for 1 treat every other day, or 1 daily small treat (< 200 cals)
• Keep to NHS alcohol limits, including WEs
• Start the day with a glass of water and keep drinking water throughout the day
• Aim for at least 5 portions veg per NFD, plus (optionally) 1-2 portions fruit

If progress is still slow after 2 weeks of the above, then look at portion sizes of meals:
best method is to mfp for 1 full week to see if NFDs average around TDEE, or if you are eating back the NFD deficit

Anyone fasting today ?

I'm finishing a b2b miniFD, with FD2 today
I did morning spin class plus some weights and I'll have a Rhine walk shortly

Just popping in to say hi I have been trying and failing to get back on the wagon for such a long time despite knowing how well the WOL works for me.

I've had a bit of a breakthrough though and am currently on day 5 of no cake/biscuits/chocolate - couldn't tell you the last time I managed even one day - probably never

Whilst I'm very aware it's early days, I'm now thinking I should have another go at 5:2. Maybe I should give it another couple of weeks to kick my sugar habit and then introduce a FD.

Well done on the sugary junk NSV, Clutter

Thanks BigChoc. Everything you say sounds right: FDs are going well and I’ve lost weight in the first four/five weeks but I now need to get a framework around NFDs.

Will see next week as a progress week. Plan is to move one day at a time. FDs are already set as Mon and Tues. This week I will tackle Weds as a healthy NFD. Week after Thursday etc.

That sounds like a good strategy hands incremental and manageable. Well done clutter sounds like a really positive step.
I think I need to concentrate harder this week on managing snacks and sweet treats-we’ve had some homemade cookies in the house which are always difficult for me to refuse.
NFD today for me; swim planned this morning and busy rest of day so should be a healthy day.
Good luck Monday fasters.