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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 24/02/2020 23:24

Hi everyone

Harriet - so sad for you. Hope your old friend is enjoying the great kennel in the sky.

Just done Day 1 of my regular Mon/Tue B2B and it felt great. Good to be back on track after a bit of a crazy week last week of eating out and being away a bit that threw everything off track. Had soup for lunch and soup for dinner with a few zero-noodles throw in and about a gallon fizzy water and black coffee.

Tomorrow have got a bean with a bit of feta for lunch and soup again for dinner.

Fast On!

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 24/02/2020 23:27

Aber - I have found that reminding myself as hard as I can of how crappy I feel after biscuit and sweet binges (my skin breaks out and I feel sluggish and my hips balloon with water retention) has helped. And downing a pint of water in the work kitchen as I wait for the biscuit craving to pass. It is hard tho in offices full of cakes and biscuits. I do take one after lunch on NFDs if i fancy it (and it usually reminds me that the biscuits are a bit so so). Good luck, Spring is on the way.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2020 07:11

Well done on FD1, hands and good luck for your b2b

aber Time for another 5:2 mantra:

If you are offered biscuits or muffins at work , remember
"Communal food has poo crumbs & snot smears !" 💩 😂

I found it easiest to decide "never" rather than "sometimes" or "just this one" - because then I didn't have to think and exercise so much willpower
Once I got into that habit - it took a few weeks - it genuinely stopped being a temptation

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 25/02/2020 09:13

Morning all,

Tuesday FD here - I have some left over spicy chicken from last nights fajitas to have with some veggies today.

Harriet - sorry to hear about your dog, he sounds like he was the best of good boys.

Aber / Lania - think the never ending winter is getting everyone down. I know it was for me before I got my break - if its any consolation its brought me straight back down again after yesterdays wind and rain!

Fingers crossed spring is on the way and we can all start feeling better soon!

Waspie · 25/02/2020 09:50

Morning All. Please count me in with the "looking forward to Spring" crowd. The floods and winds and bad weather are very wearing.

FD closed yesterday on 335, so that's good. I drank litres of water to avoid feeling as awful as I had on my previous FD. I definitely think it helped.

Day 1 FD sounds wonderfully positive hands. Hope day 2 is as successful. Good luck to hands, MrD and all other Tuesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2020 09:51

Good luck, MrD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2020 09:55

Well done on nailing your FD, Waspie
The water will have helped

Also, eat up to your full 500 calories
Research by Varady indicates that this optimises the combination of fat loss and muscle retention that is our aim.
It also helps longterm sustainability

I recommend you add some more protein to feel fuller, can be very quick,
e.g. boiled eggs, chicken breast, nuts or a piece of cheese

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 25/02/2020 09:56

Right, I am back for a FD and raring to go. It is weird, yesterday didn't go well because after a week of non FD then I started to eat more than normal again so need to get back on this.

Congratulations hummus such exciting news for you. Hope you are feeling ok and not too much morning sickness.

Sorry about your lovely dog harriet Flowers

SydneyCarton · 25/02/2020 10:09

Morning everyone

Sorry to hear about your dog harriet, I hope it's a comfort to still have your other one

Like others I'm also a bit all over the place at the moment - DPs mum, who usually looks after DS (19 months) is ill at the moment with a cold and back pain, so DP and I are trying to juggle childcare with bits of working from home and annual leave - our usual routine (such as it is with 3 small children!) is all out of whack which has had a knock on effect on fasting.

yesterday would normally have been a FD but I was doing a mix of working from home and looking after DS, which needs energy! Today is usually a NFD but I am working from home and in Skype meetings for the next three hours, so am going to try for a mini (couple of cups of tea so far) and see how we go. Pancakes for tea tonight so won't be doing a full FD! Hopefully in the office as usual tomorrow and will try for a proper FD.

On the plus side it's clear and almost sunny here, although rain is forecast later :(

Waspie · 25/02/2020 10:36

Thanks BigChocFrenzy. I have been leaving a buffer of some calories on FD's just in case I get ravenous before bed and want a glass of milk or something. However, having done 5 FDs now I am more comfortable knowing when I'll be hungry.

I have been centring protein in my evening meal - yesterday was chicken salad with quite a lot of left over roast chicken from Sunday, with a hard boiled egg for good measure.

I'd forgotten it was pancake day today! I had planned pasta with wild mushrooms but perhaps I'll trade the pasta element for savoury pancakes instead. Although DS may not be happy - he is a pasta based life form and prefers his pancakes to be covered in maple syrup!

Good luck today moonlight.

I hope you are bearing up okay harriet Flowers

harriethoyle · 25/02/2020 13:15

Thanks you lot. You're all lovely. And may I say looking VERY svelte Grin

Am back in the fasting game. Day 1 of b2b. Currently sitting on 305 calories with a fish cake planned for this evening. Feeling strong.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2020 14:24

Good luck, moon, Harriet

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 25/02/2020 19:38

Kitchen closed on 581. Day 2 tomorrow with 730 to spend.

harriethoyle · 25/02/2020 19:38

No! 720. Dagnammit!

moonlight1705 · 25/02/2020 19:56

Closed here on 630 as I did end up having a pancake but quite happy with this FD getting back into it.

Well done harriet on your FD

Whattodowithaminute · 25/02/2020 20:06

Well done harriet and moon
Sydney sounds like a tricky juggle hope MIL gets well soon!
I’m plodding along on my low cal week, all going ok, chicken noodle soup tonight-yum. Already down 2.5 of the 4.5lb gain from last week so feeling motivated to continue.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2020 20:10

Well done on your SV, What
You've hauled back most of last week's gain and the rest should follow soon.

Well done on your FD, Moon, Harriet
and good luck tomorrow, Harriet
That's nice you managed to squeeze in a pancake, Moon

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 25/02/2020 22:33

Mmmmm. Pancakes 🤤

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 26/02/2020 17:32

Finished a good B2B on Tuesday. Probably went a bit over as I had half a pancake. 😋 good luck Thursday fasters and well done Wednesday fasters.

harriethoyle · 26/02/2020 17:57

I'm sitting on 334 calories. 380 to spend. Am toying with pasta usually unheard of on FD but 70g is 270 calories...

80skid · 26/02/2020 20:23

Hi everyone Grin
I was wondering if anyone would share a couple of details about how much weight they wanted to lose (maybe even as % of body weight?) how long they've been eating this way and what sort of weight loss they've had weekly/monthly? I know there's a spreadsheet fan or 2 about and I'm interested in the stats. Unfortunately I'm still too ashamed to weigh myself, so I keep looking at my 2013 MFP data to satisfy my need for numbers! I'm planning a weigh at Easter, when hopefully I will be down to or even less than my previous starting point Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2020 20:44

Well done on your b2b, Hands

How was the pasta, Harriet

It's OK to go by clothes fit until you feel like weighing, 80s

People on these threads have come with the goal of losing ½ stone up to those on BMI 45+
Those with a lot to lose tend to lose far more quickly, but it is very individual.

Someone with a huge amount of retained water - which can cause dangerously high BP - could lose several litres the first week and hence several kg,
but otherwise noone loses more than a few lb weekly even in the initial stage.
The longterm average for most folk is 1lb per week.

For those with quite a bit to lose, the important strategy is to set up for the long haul,
be patient and persistent,
accept that the weight gain didn't happen overnight, so reaching healthy BMI is going to take many months, probably more than a year for several stone

There'll be the occasional day when you go totally off track, but just stop eating as soon as you can, then fast the next day to get back in the swing

If you nail most FDs and most of your NFDs are sensible, around TDEE,
then you should be able to see a downwards trend and looser clothes
and if you stay focused you'll reach your goal

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 26/02/2020 22:32

Kitchen closed on 745. 660 ish per b2b day. Happy with that!

SydneyCarton · 27/02/2020 06:58

Just when I thought this week was getting back to normal (MIL is better and was able to take DS yesterday), DD1 has been complaining of stomach pain for the last couple of days, so we went to the doctor yesterday. He thinks everything is fine but has ordered blood and urine tests just to be sure. She was moaning about it so I kept her off school and worked from home rather than my usual day in the office for a FD.

That said, I wasn’t feeling great yesterday either, painful stomach as well, aching and shivery, so I didn’t eat much, and what I did eat wasn’t ideal (toast and pizza). Feeling better this morning, although tummy is still sore and I’m not feeling as hungry as I thought I would after yesterday.

Decided to weigh in as usual on a Thursday morning even with no FDs this week, and I am 9 st 12.5 lbs! I’m almost in shock, it’s four pounds down from last week. I know it’s not really that much as most of my gain last time was probably undigested food and retained water, but I think it’s probably about 1.5 “real” pounds. I don’t think I’ve been 9 stone something n my adult life Blush. That’s a stone off since the start of November and 2.5 pounds off goal 1 (goal 2 is 9 st 7 but I may decide to stick with 9:10, I’ll see how it goes).

Good luck to any Thursday fasters !

EssentialHummus · 27/02/2020 07:03

Wow sydney, good work! I hope you are all feeling well again soon.