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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Laniakea · 23/02/2020 16:57

Oh Hummus! Congratulations :) that’s fab news!

ListeningQuietly · 23/02/2020 18:14

5:2 has rather a track record for producing pregnancies Grin

Many years ago somebody with PCOS who had been TTC for years
gave up and decided to lose weight instead
I believe her little one is about four now Grin

The cool thing is that now you know how to eat better, the pregnancy should be even more enjoyable

SydneyCarton · 23/02/2020 21:39

Congratulations Hummus!

inthethickofit19 · 24/02/2020 05:53

Wow congratulations Hummus!! Is this your first?

Does anyone here suffer from fibromyalgia?

Waspie · 24/02/2020 09:24

Congratulations Hummus, what lovely news! Flowers

I'm fasting today. On BigChoc's recommendation I bought Bovril so I'll try that at lunchtime. Chicken salad for dinner. Black coffee for breakfast.

Good luck Monday fasters Smile

Whattodowithaminute · 24/02/2020 09:25

Morning all, thread babies are making me broody... no more babies must not have any more babies!!
Thinking I might do a week of minis to get on top of half term gain, DH and I are away childfree on Saturday night-first time to a few years-nice dinner, nice hotel-bliss!

OohMrDarcy · 24/02/2020 09:25

Morning all

I'm back from sunny spain and settled straight into the wind and rain again Grin Next FD tomorrow here.

Not caught up properly but wanted to say Congratulations Hummus! Lovely news, I'm sure we are more than happy to keep you along chatting to us whilst you are on your new diet x

Whattodowithaminute · 24/02/2020 09:25

waspie we plan to eat exactly the same to day 😂

Laniakea · 24/02/2020 10:27

fast was fine yesterday, much easier than the last few (better sleep because I'm not in pain helps!). NFD today (I'm on 350 for coffee & marmite on toast).

Didn't weigh today, I'm premenstrual &it will depress me but NSV my primark size 12 denim non stretch pencil skirt is now too big.

I have no idea what I'm going to have for dinner - the kids want macaroni cheese which I hate. Maybe stir fry.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2020 10:42

Good luck, Waspie, what and any other Monday fasters
That's a healthy, reliable FD meal for you both

I always recommend against weighing during totm, Lania
Well done on your skirt NSV - that's lost inches

Welcome back from sunny Spain, MrD

OP posts:
DrWhy · 24/02/2020 12:35

Congratulations Hummus! I've got pregnant while doing 5:2 twice now! Blush Not planning any more!

I'm on a FD today, didn't get much sleep last night and nearly put it off but we've got someone visiting tomorrow night so I can't be grumpy, tired and shivery for that so today it is! Drinking a lot of tea! Not sure what I'm going to do for dinner, I was planning leftovers of a Mexican quinoa thing but it's got a fair amount of melted cheese on it and I'm not sure it will come in under my limit when I work it out - I might be OK if a have a small portion with lots of veg and no rice...

My NFDs haven't been too successful but I guess eating loads of rubbish 2 days a week is better than 5!

aberjenagain · 24/02/2020 14:06

Congrats hummus, wonderful news!

Sheepishly poking head in again. Last week was a disaster. No fasts and binge ate my weight is biscuits. Just don’t seem to have the right head on at the moment, and need to work out how to address that. Fasting today and hating it. Sheer grit and determination and much repeating of ‘I can have it tomorrow’.

Hope others are getting on considerably better!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2020 14:44

Good luck, aber

Can you identify any FD triggers, or is it just that you start the day not wanting to fast ?

re NFDs, are there others in the house who demand sweet junk, or can you bin all biscuits etc to have a junk-free zone for a couple of weeks

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2020 14:51

Would it help on FDs to change the number of meals, or to allow 800 cals ?

Some people find they do better with ready meals,
or 3 Exante meals, as these are boring enough not to overeat and don't require planning or cooking

Alternatively, a system that works for some folk and produces about the same weight loss is to have 3 miniFDs (800-1000 cals, no alcohol, no junk)
e.g. on Mon+Wed+Fri

The minis allow 2 or even 3 small meals, while only having 4 NFDs can reduce over-eating - more so than 4:3

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 24/02/2020 15:07

Congratulations @EssentialHummus that's wonderful ❤

harriethoyle · 24/02/2020 15:10

I had a bit of a blip last week. Did 1 x FD then my eldest dog, who had not been well, began to deteriorate very quickly and we had to let him go on Friday. As you can imagine, FDs were the last thing on my mind not least because my need for gin was copious Sad. It's been a difficult time.

So. Am having a normal day today then planning b2b Tues and weds to get back in the swing of things.

Good luck to all the Monday fasters!

Waspie · 24/02/2020 15:25

I have learned something today - I don't like Bovril! I had a chicken noodle cup a soup instead.

Waspie · 24/02/2020 15:27

So sorry to hear about the loss of your dog harriet Flowers They are so much more than pets; they are part of the family.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2020 15:33

So sorry to hear about your poor dog, Harriet 💐

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2020 15:36

Good luck, DrWhy
If you're concerned about the Mexican quinoa dish, maybe scrape off the cheese topping and replace with beans ?

Two 5:2 pregnancies .... the WOL must suit you Grin

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 24/02/2020 15:37

Oh harriet I'm so sorry. Hope things get a bit easier over time.

harriethoyle · 24/02/2020 18:18

It feels a bit like I've lost a limb - he's seen me through death, depression, my divorce, parental ill health... the one positive constant in it all. My other dog is also starting to get annoyed with me constantly waking him up to check he's not dead...! But I was blessed to have him, and I know it will get easier in time.

Thanks for the love x

Whattodowithaminute · 24/02/2020 18:42

That’s so sad harriet so sorry to hear your news...

Laniakea · 24/02/2020 19:34

Harriet I’m so sorry about your dog :( it’s so painful losing a beloved pet.

NFD - 1310 - below TDEE but I really had to force myself to eat. I am so anxious it’s becoming unmanageable, I don’t sleep, I can’t concentrate, I cry at everything! My periods are all over the place (8 days late so far, last month it was 4 early) & I have loads of peri menopausal symptoms ... off to the GP again. It’s bloody boring, feel like I have nothing to talk about other than I feel shite & it’s raining again 🙄😀

aberjenagain · 24/02/2020 22:59

Sorry for your loss harriet Flowers

Thanks bcf. My eating is related to my mood, and my mood is related to the weather, my job and my family (amongst other things). This 11000-year-long wet grey winter is literally doing my head in; and work’s not great either, so...biscuits! Also, the biscuits are at work, so it’s willpower I need to work on. Might change tack and try 3 minis and/or aim to maintain until April when spring will hopefully turn up!