Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 18/02/2020 17:22

⅔ lb per week is the amount you would lose in theory, if you stick to TDEE on NFDs and nail the FDs too

So that would be the aim and then you'd get a good way towards goal
Yep, monitor the NFDs for a week

OP posts:
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 18/02/2020 21:41

Hi all - sounds like half term is not stopping us. I had to change my usual Mon/Tue B2B as we were out for dinner on Monday but have had a good FD today and will go for another tomorrow.

Soup has been my friend - tomato and lentil at lunchtime and a really thick sweet potato and chick pea one for dinner with some of the chewy lowcal noodles thrown in.

Black coffee ☕️ obvs to power through the day. And I had a Diet Coke with my lunch. Sorry BIgChoc I know fizzy is on the “not recommended” list.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/02/2020 22:26

Well done on your FD, Hands and good luck tomorrow

Today we had the Webchat with Prof Roy Taylor on the causes of T2 and how to reverse it
(using the VLCD on which Mosely based his BSD & Fast800)

Q&A is here, for anyone interested in T2:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/3822701-Guest-post-Now-we-know-that-our-understanding-of-diabetes-is-wrong?msgid=94038924

OP posts:
alwaysanauntie · 18/02/2020 22:35

Just wanted to say thanks for the welcome back, very heartening. Everyone seems to be powering on through!

@Waspie have you tried setting mfp at your goal weight & to maintain? I do this to make sure I don't over-eat on nfds & get used to portion sizes, & don't have the same issue with it giving me warnings (though I also never tap to complete the day...) & it still logs calories. I then track my weight on a spreadsheet as I'm geeky like that & like seeing the downward trend on a graph!

I fell if the wagon a bit last Friday & drank the whole bottle of Prosecco to myself as DH took himself off to the pub & I hadn't had a drink all week. Needless to say I felt suitably rough on Saturday & now plan to remind myself 2 drinks & that's it. Somehow finished the week 1.3kgs left, so feeling motivated to nail this! Night all Smile

alwaysanauntie · 18/02/2020 22:37

Left? I meant down, haven't been drinking tonight I promise!

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 19/02/2020 06:56

auntie - great work on 1.3 kgs Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2020 08:21

Congratulations on your SV, auntie
Spreadsheets are great fun for geeks Grin

That's really good you decided to cut back on alcohol,
as for many folk it can be a major roadblock to losing bodyfat, especially around the waist:

Alcohol stops all fat-burning for hours because the liver prioritises processing the toxic alcohol byproducts
Also, excess calories from alcohol tend to be stored around the waist, rather than around the bod

btw, Prof Taylor in his book on reversing T2 /preT2 repeatedly refers to alcohol as "Liquid Fat" !

OP posts:
noseovertail · 19/02/2020 08:54

morning everyone, lots of successful FDs and great SVs - fab!!!

Glad you are enjoying your retirement bcf not at all envious of it Grin

enjoy the half term moon I am off with DS on friday which coincidentally is my FD#2 so not sure how I will manage that!

80s you sound so positive and in the zone, enjoy your transformation Smile

inthethick it will happen, keep plugging away at the FDs
Fantastic SV always

Had a good NFD yesterday, no snacking at all, it felt good. Got lunch with old work colleagues today but should be entirely manageable (soup or salad and some fruit) then at an all day event tomorrow so I need to be mindful of brown food and biscuits/cakes at coffee breaks!

Good luck weds fasters

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 19/02/2020 08:59

I’m starting day 2 of B2B. Got my flask of beef and bean stew for lunch!

What is brown food!!

noseovertail · 19/02/2020 09:12

hands i call it brown food, others call it beige, but where I work, conferences / events are usually lacking in anything green / colourful, instead its a sea of sandwiches, quiches, deep fried spring rolls, sausage rolls etc, usually followed by cake and biscuits.

Waspie · 19/02/2020 11:20

Good luck on B2B day 2 Hands, and to all other Wednesday fasters.

1.3kg is really good auntie, well done Smile. I have set the amount of weight I want to lose in mfp and it has given me a target number of calories - 1420 per day to lose 0.5Kg per week. I'm going to create a spreadsheet. I love a spreadsheet Grin

We have beige/brown food for our meetings and events too nose. I guess non-beige buffet food is challenging for caterers.

We had friends round for supper last night and DP had cooked beef chilli in the slow cooker and we had it with brown rice. I think of this as a pretty healthy meal as we use 5% fat mince and loads of fresh vegetables, brown rice rather than white etc. but I put all of it into mfp and it came out at just over 700 calories! I am doing well at avoiding snacking, although I did drink half a bottle of merlot last night which wasn't good. I'm definitely in a learning curve.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2020 12:07

waspie That mfp target is intended for a daily diet, e.g. daily 16:8 without FDs

If you are having 2 FDs, then your NFD target needs to be your TDEE, not what mfp says

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 19/02/2020 17:48

Good luck hands
80s I’ve been enjoying some more pride in appearance and self care too-finally happy to invest a bit in clothing which I haven’t for a couple of years, more groomed, regular haircuts etc, it’s good for the soul and well worth doing.
auntie Well done the SV great reward for your hard work.
inthethick stay patient you will get there in the end with perseverance.
waspie it sounds like you are trying to do two diets-using MFP is one solution with the recommended daily calories set to lose or 5:2 based on a daily TDEE with 2 FD. My MFP target for weight loss is 1500 (7x1500 gives weekly calories of 10500) or my TDEE is 1900, I therefore have 5 x1900 and 2x500 which gives the same overall effect. Combining them wouldn’t be a sustainable WOL and would be more like traditional dieting without the additional fasting health benefits.

We are away until Friday-I can not say I have been following the NFD rules Blush and then have birthday celebrations for a close friend on Saturday so this week there will be a gain to combat next week.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2020 18:38

That's excellent that you've been investing in self-care too, what
It all adds to making us happier

OP posts:
DrWhy · 19/02/2020 20:52

Hi folks,
It's been a very very long time! Around 2 years since I was last here and a wedding, a country move and two children since I first joined these threads!
I used 5:2 to loose weight ahead of my wedding and loved it. Then I had to stop while pregnant, got vaguely back into it when my first hit a year old and my husband started doing half the night wakings! Then was pregnant again a few months later. My youngest is now 15 months, neither of them sleep through the night, both want me to settle to sleep, I am back at full time work, utterly exhausted and living off chocolate. I have no time, energy or motivation and can't currently do any impact exercise like running.
I have finally reached a point though where I am sick of being uncomfortable in all my clothes, still looking pregnant and bloated.
So today was my first fast day in 2 years! I have ended up on 650 calories but I'm still breastfeeding morning and evening so I figure that's an OK FD. I need to hide from the chocolate and biscuits for another hour then go to bed.
I'm going to aim for 2 FD, 3 days at TDEE of my goal weight and 2 days where I don't worry too much about it and have what I like (but without bingeing). It won't be perfect but it will be better than my current diet of buttered toast in the car, mid morning chocolate muffin, cooked lunch probably with chips at work, chocolate snack in the afternoon, cooked dinner in the evening followed by half a packet of chocolate chip cookies! Frankly any level of control will be an improvement!
Hopefully one day they will start to sleep better and I will find the time and energy to exercise. Until then I am going to at least start doing my physio and deal with food.
Hi to everyone!

inthethickofit19 · 19/02/2020 22:48

Failed FD here today. Was full but then just had a takeaway with dh for the sake of it. I've been really struggling with my mental health for a few days and today he was frustrated with work. So we comfort ate. And I want to keep eating Sad I can't even pinpoint what's going on in me head at the moment. It's been a tough 10 months with my little one and now both have had chicken pox so we've been indoors for what feels like forever

Part of me feels like if I'm not going to make my goal for the wedding (which I'm now not) then why pressure myself just now, just do what I can comfortably manage (which May mean fast days or no fast days). I swing from this to considering doing 4:3 Grin

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 19/02/2020 23:38

Hi Dr that is a great FD at 650! Well done. I have been where you are before re working full time and using snacks and big lunches as comfort/props. Stick with the FDs - longer term it will make you feel better. Have you got facility for nice drinks like fizzy water and posh fruit teas at work? I find they help when I need a boost that would formerly have been chocolate.

Sorry to hear that inthethickofit but you probably hit the nail on the head saying you comfort ate...I’d just put it behind you. V tough when little ones are poorly. What is your wedding goal weight and where are you now?

BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2020 00:51

Well done on your 1st FD back, DrWhy
Now you are back in the fasting swing

Don't brood on it, , inthe thick
Just move on and nail the next FD

(Maybe warn your OH in advance of FDs that you don't want takeaways on those days, so not to buy a helping for you)

Even if you can't reach your original goal by April, you'd probably still feel happier if you have lost several lb, rather than sts or gained

So it is worth doing what you can:
5:2 and healthier NFD habits is probably sustainable, but 4:3 doesn't sound right for you atm

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 20/02/2020 07:18

Weighed in at 10:2:8, so up 2.5 pounds from last week Blush. I know some of that is undigested food but it’s a bit more than I was hoping for, although the weekend was rather indulgent and I only fasted on Monday this week and not Wednesday.

I’m on painkillers at the moment for a strained shoulder so no alcohol yesterday or today, which is a bonus I suppose. It’s better today so hopefully we can get out and be a bit active, as yesterday was mostly indoors with a hot water bottle on my back Hmm

Whattodowithaminute · 20/02/2020 07:22

Ouch sydney that’s not nice for you hope that shoulder improves soon.
inthethick you can still make significant progress for the wedding in April-stay focussed, believe in yourself and really rally DH to support not sabotage your efforts-good luck.

inthethickofit19 · 20/02/2020 07:41

Thank you so much.

I can do this.

FD today. Lots of water

BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2020 08:51

Don't worry, Sydney
As you know, it will be mostly undigested food and retained water,
most of which a couple of good dumps and a good FD will get rid of

Focus your energy on an FD today or tomorrow and don't worry about exercise if that's a struggle with your injury
Weight loss is at least 90% diet for almost everyone except very intense regular exercisers;

Also important to focus on having a sensible WE within TDEE, so you start next week in a good place to progress with loss.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2020 08:51

Good luck on your FD, inthethick and any other Thursday fasters

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 20/02/2020 17:39

Thanks.

Beginning to think about nothing but food now Blush I've had my 500 cals.

Laniakea · 20/02/2020 18:04

I've just finished the second day of a b2b - 45 calories left for tea later.

It's been such a trying week. I had my hip injected on Tuesday (turns out I've completely shagged my gluteus minimus muscle - no more yoga for me). I had a horrible steroid flare and two completely sleepless nights but it's feeling much better this afternoon, physio starts in a couple of weeks & hopefully I'll find out what I can still do! DD1 moved out yesterday - I'm very happy & excited for her but god it feels awful, I keep crying! I've had eight medical appointments in the last two weeks for various children & me & have ended up making complaints to three different departments ... I am so stressed I could scream. Oh & I'm at war with Hermes regarding a 'lost' package ... wankers.

Still it could all be so much worse! Looking forward to sleep tonight & food tomorrow.