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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
noseovertail · 17/02/2020 09:35

Fantastic sv lanieka
Thanks hummus I reckon the OMAD approach might be the way forward :-)

Just need the imposter syndrome to bog off and then I might start feeling less stressed in new role Confused

badger82 · 17/02/2020 09:45

FD today, going for the hardcore approach - no food until dinner tonight around 7.30 Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2020 11:43

Congratulations on your SV, Lania
So near to your next milestone

Good luck today, badger

Don't worry, nose You're back on track now after your break and you can zap any regain
Good luck with your new job - remember: they chose you because they believe in you

The strategy with social events is to only feast at that one meal, not all day

  • try OMAD, as hummus says, or just a small salad or soup - then the next day go immediately for an FD

At an event follow the "One Plate Rule":

  • only 1 plate per course, no seconds except veg
  • only 1 alcoholic drink
OP posts:
Waspie · 17/02/2020 12:43

Afternoon everyone. I hope everyone is safe and well following the storms.

I'm on an FD today. I had two cups of black coffee for breakfast and now I'm enjoying a chicken & vege cup-a-soup and a bottle of sparkling water. Salad - probably tuna and hard boiled egg - for dinner.

I had a bit of a blip yesterday with a yummy roast lunch but still within TDEE, although 100 cal over my NFD calorie target.

Good luck on hardcore FD badger!

Congrats on you SV Lania

Best wishes to everyone fasting today Flowers

SydneyCarton · 17/02/2020 12:49

Monday FD here - only one this week as I'm on leave for half term after Tuesday so taking a break from fasting while I'm on hols. I'll weigh in as usual on Thursday morning for consistency - not expecting to lose anything, but as long as I can stay the same that's fine.

OK weekend - I always seem to be going okay until about 4pm on Saturday and then start reaching for treats. The weather doesn't help as we're all cooped up a bit and less physically active than during the week.

I did take some measurements on Sunday and was pleasantly surprised. Bust - 36.5 inches (not sure how delighted I am about this tbh Hmm, especially as I just got properly fitted in Bravissimo five months and sixty quid ago), which is down from about 38 the last time I measured. Waist is a comfortable 30 inches - after three children I'm pretty pleased about that! Hips - 40 inches - I don't think they'll get much smaller, but it is the lowest they've been for a looong time.

Good luck to all the other Monday fasters Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2020 13:09

Good luck too, Waspie, Sydney and all the Monday fasters

I've had my strength & flexibility class, now getting ready for a walk, maybe evening spin too later
Crikey we had a big storm last night - kept me awake ! - and now I see debris from trees scattered all along the Rhine path and in the river

Fasters: remember the Bovril if you fancy a warming savoury drink
I sometimes use it as an FD first course, instead of soup

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2020 13:11

Congratulations on your inches NSV, Sydney
That represents a significant amount of lost bodyfat, which must be encouraging for you

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 17/02/2020 15:39

sydney waspie nose badger how are you getting on? Had a stir fry for lunch here with noodles, pak choi, mushrooms and broccoli, and a lot of coffee. The day is so far going more easily than expected - combination of better weather and napping toddler I think! Will have a smaller evening meal.

noseovertail · 17/02/2020 15:58

Fab measurements sydney

So far so good hummus your lunch sounds delicious and 👍 for a napping toddler. I'm just heading home now, just a 1hr 15min 'pack em in like sardines' commute to contend with before dinner of either soup and wafer thin chicken or mushroom omelette? Decisions decisions.... should be on about 600 today I reckon. Good luck to the others 😃

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2020 17:02

Sounds good, hummus, nose

I'm just admiring a stunning pink & grey sunset over the Rhine
Haven't seen this before - I wonder why it happens

OP posts:
Waspie · 17/02/2020 17:09

I am about ready to chew the arm of my chair Hummus Grin You're lunch sounds very nice. I had a cup-a-soup which was actually quite nice but seems a long time ago now!

I will buy some Bovril BigChoc. I bought DP some of those low-cal "Options" hot chocolate sachets for Valentines as he is missing chocolate but I would prefer something like Bovril. I am finding that I'm physically cold on FDs. So I'm sat in the office alternating between hot flashes and chattering teeth. My colleagues must think I'm crazy as I've been putting on my jacket and then taking it off 10 minutes later Smile

I like the omelette idea nose. I might do that on my next FD. I hope your commute wasn't too awful.

Waspie · 17/02/2020 17:11

Sorry "Your lunch..." auto cucumber wrecks my grammar!

Waspie · 17/02/2020 17:30

That sunset sounds gorgeous BigChoc. I have read that post-storm sunsets are particularly stunning.

badger82 · 17/02/2020 18:12

Didn't manage full abstention - got to 4.30 and had a slice of bread with peanut butter and some various small items in the shape of mini eggs. Managed to stop though and will just have salmon and salad for dinner so without counting I would say a mini FD.

Am fasting Thursday

harriethoyle · 17/02/2020 18:14

A late check in! Been so manic with work travelling (yesterday) and working (today) I hadn't eaten since yesterday lunch 😳 am away til tomorrow with no self catering facilities so I decided on wagamama - 609 calories for chilli chicken ramen. Nothing has EVER tasted so good Grin

noseovertail · 17/02/2020 19:23

Sounds lovely bcf how are you enjoying your retirement?

Same here waspie I find having a bath helps...

Mmmmm harriet love wagamama Grin

Well done badger for reining it in!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2020 20:07

I'm loving retirement, nose
Just a continual holiday, doing what I want 😁

Yep, waspie maybe it was the storm that produced such a spectacular sunset
If so, I'll look forward to the next tempest !

You did well to limit things, badger
Have you tried having a small protein lunch, e.g. a boiled egg and a tomato, to avoid feeling so ravenous ?

Wow, Harriet No wonder you enjoyed that chili chicken
When you're on the road, useful to take a couple of small Ziplocs of say 30g each of unflavoured nuts

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 17/02/2020 22:48

FD finished on 589; tea and water all day, then scampi, oven chips and veg for dinner. 102 minutes of exercise on the Apple Watch and 19,000 steps: off to bed now before I fall asleep on the sofa.

Well done on the Monday fasting everyone. Good to know about the chilli chicken ramen harriet, DP and I sometimes go for an early dinner at Wagamama on Wednesdays which is a FD for me and I’ve had what I thought was a relatively low cal option and been blown away when I checked it 😱

moonlight1705 · 18/02/2020 09:07

I'm not really doing any FDs this week. Both DH and I have the half term off so we're taking the opportunity to go out for lunches, cinema etc.

I'm going to treat each day as a strictly non snacking non FD though.

Hope you are all doing well on this cold and miserable day!

80skid · 18/02/2020 09:13

Wow @SydneyCarton that's a brilliant FD!!!

FD for me over here - I've started with a spin class and feeling good. I've realised that since I've been back on this, not only have I been more conscious of my exercise regime and not eating between meals, but I have started to tend to my unruly eyebrows, wear eyeliner and mascara, I take care of my skin, I have got a French manicure and no one needs to know about my bikini line Blush. Don't get me wrong, I have a long long way to go with the weight loss target, but after too long of having no time for me, no sleep and certainly no grooming, I'm starting to come out the other side of the overweight, unkempt and mumsy character I have morphed into. Within the next couple of weeks I shall hopefully fit into some lovely clothes which I can't currently and then it's underwear shopping. I know there's a long way to go, but I am starting to feel good Wink
Thank you all, have a lovely Tuesday Grin

SydneyCarton · 18/02/2020 10:35

Thanks 80skid, I felt pretty good at the end of it. Will try and get out for a walk again this lunchtime.

I know what you mean about the increased self care along with weight loss. I’ve booked a regular end of the month appointment for a mini manicure and eyebrow shape for the last two months and again for the end of February, and I really want to keep this up. Hair wise I’m okay as it’s shortish, so needs a regular appointment to stop it looking mad.

My target is 9st 10, 4 lbs away, and I think when (not if!) I get there I might sign up for a personal stylist session. My local shopping centre offers a free service and I’ve heard good things about it Smile

Good luck to anyone fasting today!

Waspie · 18/02/2020 10:35

That's really positive 80skid. I'm targeting the stage you are at at the moment.

Enjoy half term moonlight!

I'm also finding that I'm far more aware of snacks and things I eat between meals now. And also how high calorie some things are that I would never have guessed. Bread is one of these and cheese is ridiculous! I was amazed when I looked at the nutritional info on the back of a packet of cheddar Shock I mean, I knew it was high cal but not that high cal!

I had a good FD yesterday - 350 cal. I've been using the "My Fitness Pal" app to log my food and drink but it doesn't like fast days. It tells me that my progress won't be logged or tracked because I haven't eaten enough.

Best wishes to Tuesday fasters Flowers

inthethickofit19 · 18/02/2020 11:27

Hi all, I'm terrible for posting as I have my hands full with 2 LO's. Both have had/ have chicken pox so it's fun and games !

I have managed to do a few FD's and am stuck at 10st exactly for the past few days.

FD today, let's see if we can break into the 9's. Really deflated because I'm not going to manage my goal of 9 stone by April (family wedding) but if I don't keep going it will no doubt be 10.5 stone so just got to accept it and move on.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/02/2020 15:53

Well done on excellent FDs, Waspie, Sydney

Sounds like your healthy habits are becoming part of your routine now, moon
We recommend No snacking permanently, including during a break, as you are doing.

That's great 5:2 is encouraging you in more self-care, sydney, 80s
It can be a big boost to morale and contribute to the new you

IntheThick If you have lost quite a bit, then you may experience the occasional plateau while your body gets used to the new weight before resuming loss

This tends to especially happen at a "set point" - a weight you previously stayed at for years

However, it could also be that you need to look at NFDs:
Are you keeping to the 5:2 healthy habits, especially the No Snacking, NHS alcohol limits and sensible about treat amounts ?

If you are really keen about April,
then I recommend 1 week mfp, to check whether you average around TDEE on NFDs
mfp is useful to highlight issues such as hidden calorie bombs, total daily sugar etc

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 18/02/2020 17:10

Hi BCF, thanks for your response. This was the weight I was when I first had baby. It had creeped up with the difficult months we've had. I was also this weight previously, quite a bit before the pregnancy. Just before I fell pregnant I was 9 stone. But it's like my body remembers.

Good point about NFD too though.

Seriously want to emotional eat tonight. It's been a difficult day with 10 month old who has chicken pox.

also about april my tdee is only 1500, the most I lose is two thirds of a lb a week.