Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2020 11:57

Congratulations on your SV, Harriet
Excellent progress especially when you are so near to goal

Maintaining is good, badger after your FDs didn't go to plan
Now you can start next week without having to hail anything back - if you can have a sensible Friday evening & weekend, with healthy 5:2 habits

That's a good FD , Waspie
and the reduced hunger today indicates that your body is adapting well to fasting

It's a great help when your OH is fasting too, so you don't have to fast next to a feast

However, men usually lose more quickly on any WOE - biology - so prepare to grit your teeth and congratulate him !

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 14/02/2020 12:17

Thanks all! @Waspie my DP has now decided he wants to start fasting having seen my downward trajectory... I just know he's going to be teeth gnashingly successful 🤣

ListeningQuietly · 14/02/2020 14:17

No loss this week, but hey ho. Next week is another week and my Birthday (target day) is not for a few more weeks.

harriet
Be prepared to be depressed once your DH starts fasting
the buggers lose weight far quicker than we ladies do Grin
BUT
If you are both doing it, planning meals becomes more fun

Waspie · 14/02/2020 17:22

It's totally unfair that men are able to lose weight more easily than us. They don't have the hormonal changes either - lucky things!

It's definitely nice to eat the same salad as DP, although we had to watch DS hoover down an enormous bowl of tortellini. But he's 12, sporty, growing like a weed and thin as a stick. He finds the whole idea of dieting very amusing Smile

We're all having turkey stir fry this evening which is quite low calorie, although I do plan to eat some of the Ben & Jerry's ice cream DP got me for Valentines afterwards. I may even share it with DP and DS if they are lucky Grin

ListeningQuietly · 14/02/2020 17:33

Waspie
Men's bodies and women's bodies are very different.
My BMI is 22.6 and my body fat is 28%
DH BMI is 27.6 and his body fat is 19%
DS bodyfat is around 15% which on a female would look scrawny but he has rugby player build !

Interestingly the 'waist reduction' bonus of 5:2 for women does not seem to work for the men .... so there are some perks Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2020 21:11

Listening The waist reduction works well for men & women too
IF is a standard tool now for many male bodybuilders & weightlifters

However, for both men & women, a lean waist needs the % bodyfat to be within the rough target you are aiming for
e.g.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2020 21:17

The type of calories consumed affects fat distribution, within a given % bodyfat

Excess calories from alcohol and junky carbs, especially sugary ones, are stored preferentially as fat around the mid-section

Also, insulin resistence / pre-T2 will tend to thicken the waist, even with moderate levels of booze and / or junk food

  • such folk need to be very disciplined to stay lean.
OP posts:
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 14/02/2020 22:53

Hi everyone. We’ve got some good technical data going on here! I’ve had two days of lots of chocolate, wine and good food with nights out and Valentine’s Day. Going to try and go sensibly over the weekend as I’ve broken out in spots and I’m sure the sugar peak over the last two days has caused it.

Well done 👍 to those with SVs and NSVs. Lovely to hear the inspiration.

SydneyCarton · 15/02/2020 07:34

Well done on the loss harriet, that’s great 😀 and so close to goal.

Had a very indulgent dinner last night (M&S valentines meal deal!) but prepared for it with a small breakfast and no lunch, and went for a long walk at lunchtime (distraction + calorie burn!). Have a great weekend everyone Smile

Whattodowithaminute · 15/02/2020 07:48

Well done harriet great achievement!

moonlight1705 · 15/02/2020 08:04

Only a tiny loss of 1/2 a lb this morning but I blame DD and her cake! Grin

I think today is going to be spent snuggled up inside due to Storm Dennis although DD has got yet another cold so is miserable... can't wait!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2020 09:39

It's in the right direction, moon so still an SV

I'm fasting today - anyone else ?
Lovely & sunny so far, so I'm going out - after my cocoa - for a walk along the Rhine

L: Salad with a little bruschetta & probably smoked salmon
Afternoon pump class at the gym
T: beef soup

OP posts:
Laniakea · 15/02/2020 10:47

I’m fasting today (100 cals so far).

Last Thursday - way over (but 30K steps!)
Friday - ditto
Saturday - fast day
Sunday - TDEE + 500 over
Monday & Tuesday - b2b fasts, Wednesday - TDEE
Thursday - a mini (800)
Friday - TDEE

Really hoping I’ve undone the damage of two days very much off plan & trying to avoid my standard good weigh in -> putting lots of pressure on myself -> self sabotage & misery!

Waspie · 15/02/2020 12:12

Good luck today BigChoc and Laniakea

Well done moonlight. We shall be doing the same today I think.

I did my first week weigh in after breakfast and have lost 2Kg since same time last Saturday - woo hoo. I then read Listening's post about body fat and looked at BigChoc's body fat tables and realised my weight issue is even worse than I thought Sad.

My BMI is 26 (bad) but my body fat calculation is 38% (very very bad). I had thought I needed to lose 15-20kg but the calculator.net website I have used suggests it's more like 25Kg.

I'm trying to stick to fewer than 500 on FDs and fewer than 1500 on NFDs by dumping all junk food and snacks (TDEE is 1887 as I'm quite tall).

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2020 12:43

Good luck to us both today, lania

Don't beat yourself up about going off plan and avoid doing too many fasts to compensate
I recommend at least 4 days per week should be free of fasting, for sustainability, or it seems too much like a near daily grind of dieting / punishment

We all slip up sometimes, so just stop as soon as you notice, then move on with the week's plan
After a blowout, I'd suggest 16:8 and cutting out booze & junk for a few days might help you, rather than extra FDs

Focus on the FD today, then tomorrow focus on a sensible - but not sub-TDEE - Sunday
That'll get you back on track for next week.

Waspie For sustainability, I recommend you eat up your 500 cals on FDs and 1800-1900 cals on NFDs

If you want to boost loss of bodyfat, then I recommend short (20-30 mins) HIIT sessions
Shred level 1 is very effective and free - MrD and other 5:2ers are fans

If you need the motivation of company, then an hour of an HIIT gym class like spin or pump

OP posts:
Laniakea · 15/02/2020 20:28

Thanks BigChoc Smile fast was fine ... 450 plus skimmed milk in tea. Hope you had a good day!

I’m looking forward to a nourishing NFD tomorrow. My three ‘bad’ days weren’t too awful (no junk just lots of food including cheese & trifle ;) ) but proved how much alcohol doesn’t agree with me. 4 units in 2 days doesn’t even count as a binge I think but god I felt crap (physically & mentally) afterwards.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2020 22:48

Well done, lania
You'd feel the benefit if you can manage healthy TLC NFDs next week, to nurture your bod,
with plenty of sleep and water too.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 16/02/2020 15:47

Afternoon all,

Having a last minute Sunday FD here after completely forgetting about my planned Saturday one!

Have managed to have my roast dinner still, just sensible and balanced. A small amount of dry roasted potatoes, roast chicken, plenty of veggies and a little gravy. Back on the water now and a lovely cup of tea later.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2020 17:30

That's a delic FD, MrD which fits in with a family roast
(Hmm, won't ask what you were doing Saturday ! Grin)

Anyone interested in the causes of T2 or weight loss to reverse T2,
there is an MN Webchat on Tuesday at 3pm with Prof Roy Taylor

He won the Diabetes UK 2012 Banting Prize for his research

  • on which Mosely's BSD & Fast800 are based and he wrote the foreward to Mosely's BSD book

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/3822701-Guest-post-Now-we-know-that-our-understanding-of-diabetes-is-wrong?msgid=93983655

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 16/02/2020 18:36

Saturday wasnt a fun as you suspect Grin had 4 teen girls sleeping over, who I had to get grumpy with when they woke me at 2am.... I had 2 of their choc chip brioche when i hot up with a cuppa before even considering I was on a FD.... !

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2020 22:20

You did well not to start swigging the gin ! Grin

OP posts:
noseovertail · 17/02/2020 07:18

Morning everyone, fell off the 5:2 bandwagon for a couple of weeks, too many birthdays, new job, meals out and wine Blush but I'm back with a fd today, I feel absolutely rubbish for eating so much shite over the last couple of weeks, so looking forward to getting back in the fasting swing. Any advice on how to cope with events, it seems if I indulge too much on one day, instead of pulling it back the next day I go off the rails slightly Sad

Will try and catch up on thread during lunch, wish me luck!!

Laniakea · 17/02/2020 07:55

Morning everyone (urgh ... Monday)

NFD today - planning a b2b on Tuesday & Wednesday (will be so busy ... dd1 is moving out 😱 & I’ll be helping her pack etc). I’d like to do another one at the weekend too.

Weighed myself this morning - 137lbs which gives me a BMI of 25.1 Grin only 2lbs to my first goal. I’m aiming for 122-125 eventually.

EssentialHummus · 17/02/2020 07:56

Congrats on the new job nose, I hope it's going well. Good luck today, I'm fasting with you. I find events tricky too - tend to either treat them as OMAD (and no/little alcohol) or pre-schedule a FD for the day after, get all the food needed in in advance so I'm not tempted etc. It's difficult, I'm also prone to going off the rails.

Laniakea · 17/02/2020 07:57

Good luck with the fast noseover ... I always find the first one after a break tough (sending battle through vibes Wink )