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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2019 11:36

Welcome, Skinny and good luck 🙂
Useful FAQs, links & info in the OP, especially under "How to start"

Like Hummus, I recommend recording weight in the morning after FD2

. First thing in the morning before drinking or eating anything, but after loo
. Weigh yourself naked
. Use the same scales in the same place on a hard, level surface - not carpet
. Switch on the scales and count slowly to 3, so they have time to calibrate, then step on - don't jump
. Keep still and don't lean to the side or back / front

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 28/11/2019 12:01

Maz It was delicious Grin. I might have it again for lunch today but I’m at home with the snotty children and I’d have to fight them for it! Good luck on your first FD Skinny, and everyone else fasting today

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/11/2019 12:01

My husband has had the dreaded stomach bug and lost a half stone. He was wanting to fast to lose it but is like a spring chicken now.

I find weekday fasts ok. Weekend fasts ghastly!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/11/2019 12:03

I’m on FD today and aiming for closer to 800. So far so good I need three meals a day.

Arifa97 · 28/11/2019 12:57

FD today because Christmas work party tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2019 15:09

Good luck, Arifa, glasgow

OP posts:
Skinnydreams · 28/11/2019 18:44

bigchoc I already do all of those things when getting weighed. I would be tempted to take all the earrings out of my ears too but it takes too long to out them all back in Wink

So I'm on 540cals, I'm freezing and I'm already looking forward to my Friday breakfast with the girls from work in the morning. Its gonna be a long night ..... but I'm gonna do it. Haven't made it this far on a fast in a long time. I still feel a bit queasy too though which has massively helped!!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/11/2019 19:03

Well done on a good 1st FD, skinny

tip:
Now clean your teeth - the fresh taste helps psychologically to prevent any more eating or drinking, except water

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 28/11/2019 21:01

@Skinnydreams @EssentialHummus

I use the happy scale app on iPhone. It produces a lovely (or not so lovely) graph of weight loss and shows predictions as well which I find useful.

I weigh daily and think it helps
Keep me in check and motivated but think I might move to weighing morning after 2nd FD instead.

@MazDazzle Im similar to you. Struggle with second FD. So I think I need to stop thinking about it and just do it!

FD2 tomorrow. I've got this.

Skinnydreams · 28/11/2019 22:40

Teeth were cleaned at 8pm with the kids. Put pjs on early and dressing gown and extra bed socks and jumped into bed with a movie just after. I am freezing and hungry but I have done it!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/11/2019 23:51

Well done skinny dreams. Once I’m in bed in feel surprisingly ok!

Today was FD and it went really well unlike last week when I felt hideous. But I think I have had closer to 800 today so maybe that’s the difference? Or maybe I’m getting used to it. Found a nice week book for my kindle for higher protein/fat smoothies for 250 cal so used one for this morning. A cheaper and healthier option than a shake which I had contemplated for ease.

I have managed to walk the dogs, work, run around after the kids, exercise and bake mince pies without licking the spoon... will try 600 cal next week and see if that’s the difference....

OohMrDarcy · 29/11/2019 07:18

Well done skinny and glasgow and anyone else who fasted yesterday that I've missed.

FD for me today, I do enjoy my Friday FDs - they have helped me regain control of my diet and stop it turning into fuckitall friday (when takeaways used to begin and extend the weekend crap)

Anyone else fasting today?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/11/2019 07:20

Good luck! A Friday sounds like a decent option. I try not to binge the next day.... trying not to turn it onto “good day and bad day”

MazDazzle · 29/11/2019 07:49

Weigh day today and I’m 4lb down. Stayed the same last week, so I’m really pleased. That’s 12lb in 3 weeks. Another 12b and I’ll be back in my happy zone. I expect the next 12lb will take a lot longer though.

I’m the same Glasgow. I usually find it easy to eat well after an FD.

Good luck MrD, Inthethickofit and anyone else who’s fasting.

Enjoy your Christmas party Arifa!

OohMrDarcy · 29/11/2019 09:08

Glasgow I've found that as time has gone on fasting has reset my appetite so not only am I eating better on NFD, but what I eat has changed too - I'm craving more veg, eggs etc - very rarely do I crave carbs now (which is much needed and fab!)

Fab SV Maz!! Well done

EssentialHummus · 29/11/2019 12:13

Same as mrd - I'll sometimes think "Yeah, bit too much snacking yesterday" then remember that it was one biscuit and a bowl of nuts, rather than a sharing bag of crisps and half the Sainsbury's bakery section. You really look back and notice that your appetite has changed.

EssentialHummus · 29/11/2019 12:13

Well done maz!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/11/2019 16:49

Congratulations on your SV, Maz
Excellent progress on your return

Well done on your FD, skinny, glasgow

and on your healthy habit NSVs, MrD, Hummus

Good luck, MrD

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 29/11/2019 17:16

Kitchen closed on 526, its bloody freezing here... had a good 3 litres of water but think I'll make a mint tea in a mo and planning an early night

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/11/2019 19:27

I have been gluten free low sugar for a few years now so to be fair, my snacks are medjool dates and dark chocolate. But I have be just eaten three now sugar biscuits, half a bar of dark chocolate and 3 dates. Not good!!

I have had a crazy busy week though and been quite active.

How is everyone’s FD going?

I have a big Xmas night out tomrrow so am going to do a mini 500 cal fast in the morning

BigChocFrenzy · 29/11/2019 21:31

Well done on your FD, MrD
You always seem to roll 'em out efficiently, off the production line

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/11/2019 06:58

That I may do bigchoc but it seems I've officially hit plateau territory. Another week STS. Am irritated and fine with it at the same time. I've not had a proper one this year and after more than 4st I should expect one really. But I have goals I want to reach 🤣 I'll keep on keeping on and the whoosh WILL come. I know I've changed nothing, I know I'm eating to approx goal TDEE nearly every day and drinking plenty of water and not snacking, so - tonight I shall eat what I like to let the frustration out and then back to normal.

Got next weeks FDs planned already - Monday and Thursday to avoid a supplier xmas lunch where I will be sensible but also enjoy it.

Anyone else weighing in today?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 30/11/2019 08:08

MrD do you do any weight training? I find the weight falls off me when I lift kettlebells as it seems to crank up my fat burning/metabolism

moonlight1705 · 30/11/2019 08:19

Despite only doing one FD this week I've lost 1kg or 2.2lb which I'm pleased about. Every 2kg loss I'm giving myself a non food related treat and have put them all on a random generator app on my phone. This treat is a new book Grin

How is everyone doing? DD is much better today so we're going to head out for a nice walk on the river.

moonlight1705 · 30/11/2019 08:20

Well done mrd on the 4st loss but can understand the frustration of STS.

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