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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
inthethickofit19 · 25/11/2019 20:05

I've fallen off the wagon but only because my little one had the cold plus vomiting. Now I feel dreadful. Had little to no sleep 😫 all whilst I'm due on my cycle

Will be back soon!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2019 20:43

Poor you, inthethick 💐
You've had a really tough time, with all that going on
I recommend an early night tonight, as you've a lot of sleep to catch up on

Plan an FD when you feel ready
In the meantime, try to keep the 5:2 healthy habits, especially NHS alcohol limits and no snacking between meals
and support your body with nourishing meals, including protein and lots of veg each day

That sounds a good plan, glasgow
See how you go with exercise on FDs and tweak as necessary

Well done on your FD and SV, filly

emcla Cutting out added sugar for a while may help, but be prepared for a few weeks of cravings until you've kicked the habit

If you do try this, I recommend also:

  • keep portions of starchy carbs to maximum 100g cooked weight per meal, or 2 slices bread - if you double carb, then have 50g +50g

  • Mosely recommends no more than 2 portions fruit per day and that those sensitive to sugar should avoid the high-sugar tropical fruits like mango, pineapple, banana
    Also avoid dried fruit and fruit juice

Good choices are berries, apple, pear - but only have fruit as part of a meal, not on its own

re Breakfast:
Some folk do better on NFDs with it; some without

If you do have breakfast, then in your case, avoid sugary breakfast cereals & juice.
Sounds like you would do better with protein, so say a veg omelette, or poached egg, mushrooms & tomato. with bacon if you like it.

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 25/11/2019 21:01

That sounds tough inthethickofit. Fingers crossed for. Better sleep tonight!

Did well over the weekend and had a successful FD today. Dinner consisted of a wrap with chicken, onions and peppers. It was delicious.

Taking the kids to a Christmas market tomorrow and out for lunch and dinner, so need to focus on making good choices.

emcla · 25/11/2019 21:27

Thanks bigchoc. Will try that. Tough time of year to quit sugar. Is there ever a good time ? I think protein may be the way to go.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2019 22:04

Well done on your FD, Maz and your sensible WE

Enjoy the Christmas market tomorrow

I hope to go to the Frankfurt Christmas market on Thursday, at least if the weather improves - it's been very cold and foggy

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SydneyCarton · 25/11/2019 22:28

FD finished on 517; prawn stir fry, cup of tea and a Jaffa cake Grin. After ditching the black coffee I’ve now got some herbal tea: spiced ginger and cherry & cinnamon. I always find they smell better than they actually taste, but I tried a cup of each one today at work and they’re not bad.

Had a good weekend with Sunday lunch out with friends, a very nice pizza and a beer. First alcohol since 1st November and it was good! No more for the rest of the week, then a night away at a friends - I am so looking forward to this as it’s the first night I have had away from the children since last April, and then I was six months pregnant with DS so not exactly in full on party mode Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2019 00:00

Well done on your FD, Sydney
Your tea must have smelled amazing - I agree the taste is rarely up to the smell !

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 26/11/2019 07:35

Morning all

My Family early Christmas is done and dusted. Alcohol consumption almost non existent (one bucks fizz with dinner). Cheese and crackers was moved to last night as just can't eat the volume any more in one day - which is of course a Very. Good. Thing.

So - today is FD as usual, not going to weigh beforehand I don't think and just be good for the rest of the week and see what happens. Would be happy with an STS (obviously happier with a loss of some kind Grin ) so we shall keep on going and see what happens!

That is basically my Christmas socialising done now (apart from maybe a meal with a couple of friends) as its just me and the kids for Christmas on boxing day at home this year and won't see any family (hence doing it early). Was sensible and certainly didn't pig out.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2019 08:13

Well done, MrD
and being unable to pack it away as before is a very good habit NSV - capacity retrained

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 26/11/2019 08:28

Ok after catching up with the thread you all motivated me, and as the kids are with their dad so no school run I've just reaquainted myself with evil Jillian. Whoever it was who turns off her voice was inspired... that was much easier - didn't need to stop and felt good doing it. So will give level 2 a go again next time Grin

What a great way to start a FD... and a bottle of water down already too!

moonlight1705 · 26/11/2019 09:39

On a FD today although I'm stuck at home with a DD who has d&v so cannot take her to nursery or go to work. Just enjoying a lovely big cup of tea and have some soup for lunch and beef stew for dinner.

More importantly I've got to try and get DD to eat something as she's only had milk for two days and has the milk nappies!!

Fillybuster · 26/11/2019 11:27

Good luck Moonlight (that sounds tough!) and Mr D (& all other fasters)

I’ve been turning off Evil Jills voice for a few years but I think it was Hummus who suggested it on here. Makes a huge difference:...there’s a limit to how many times I can hear to hear her talking about jeans shopping plus I find it really annoying when she joins in for a few more....Grin Let us know how you find level 2: I quite like it (bar the chair squats...)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2019 11:44

ooh thanks for the new thread bcf - I will read from the start later but just logging on quickly to say FD for me today - next one planned for Friday Smile good luck everyone else fasting today

aberjenagain · 26/11/2019 11:53

Checking in quickly for a Tuesday FD. Good luck fellow fasters!

EssentialHummus · 26/11/2019 11:58

Good luck moonlight I hope it's all back to normal soon, poor her and poor you.

Good luck 43.

mrd yes I have a dedicated disco playlist for Jillian Michaels now, and wireless headphones for the benefit of my neighbours. One did enquire about why our (160 year old!) wooden floors are suddenly so squeaky. I had to disappoint her as it really is just the JM cardio routine Grin.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2019 12:20

Good luck, 43, aber, Moonlight, MrD and any other Tuesday fasters
I hope miniMoonlight is better soon Thanks

filly, MrD Your duty to fellow 5:2ers is to report back your reviews on Level 2 Shred
e.g. improved fitenss, but also muscle aches on a scale of 1-5

Interesting that so many silence poor JM Grin

Hummus Neighbours probably won't believe you about the squeaky floors - at least not if they are Mumsnetters
JM is the kind of excuse that MNers would suggest in AIBU Grin

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 26/11/2019 15:30

Well the plus side of today is that FD is going quickly and easily. Sadly DD is also have a FD due to the fact she throws any food back up Sad thought we had cracked it with a dry bit of toast but nope. My jeans didn't make it and I'm putting baking powder on the wool rug in the hopes of clearing up the smell. Envy

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2019 16:18

Just caught up on the thread, hope your dad is back to full health now mrd how scary for you. Well done to all those with SVs, seemed like there had been lots of success Smile and welcome newbies.

Fd going okay, starting to get lots of piles of treats at work that I'm having to resist, very hard when it's cold and grey and miserable and I'm fully in hibernation mode! I have so many things coming up in dec, yikes, think I'm just going to try and have my 2 fds and hopefully maintain. Got long weekend at centreparcs on the 12th and not relishing the though of having to don a swimsuit Blush but only 1 get together with a friend next Friday so will attempt to be extra mindful until then!

Right, got to dash, hope to log back on again between now and next fd on Friday but will see... well done all the fellow tues fasters

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2019 16:19

Dd, not dad mrd apologies Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2019 16:20

Oh moonlight your poor dd and jeans and rug Envy (not envy)

OohMrDarcy · 26/11/2019 17:13

Kitchen closed on 503 here - leftover curry (without rice or naan) did the job nicely.

DD is back at school now and coping admirably thanks 43, she is still miffed she can't do rugby for at least another 2 weeks particularly as the team have a match on Thursday.... sigh

Moonlight - hoping your DD settles soon and the rug survives! Vomiting children is a nightmare!

hope all the other fasters have had a good one!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2019 18:25

Poor Moonlight & MiniMoonlight
What a torrid time

Well done on your FD, MrD

Stay focused, 43 and chant to yourself
"I can have it tomorrow"

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 26/11/2019 20:47

Ended up at 575 today which is not bad considering. I did have one dumpling with the beef stew!

MiniMoonlight is in bed and hopefully will sleep this out. Rug is surprisingly fine after an application of vinegar and water and then baking powder.

Well done 43 on resisting the temptations of treats. It's a hard mindset to get into isn't it.

aberjenagain · 26/11/2019 21:41

All done on 650 ahead of fd2 tomorrow.

Well done mrd, moonlight, and 43

moonlight really hope the end is in sight for you and your dd

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2019 22:29

Well done, moonlight, aber

How are you doing, 43 ?

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