Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 30/11/2019 11:39

Contratulations on your SV, moonlight
Enjoy your reward book

Good to hear that MiniMoonlight is so much better now

Keep plugging on, MrD and you know you'll smash through this plateau
Focus on how far you have come - 4 stone is a fab accomplishment, which will have made such a difference to shape & health

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/11/2019 14:48

Congrats on the SV moonlight, love the non food rewars generator idea Grin

I do shred occasionally Glasgow, that includes handweights but I'm not really a gym goer so wont go properly if that makes sense. Need to get swimming with the kids again, though need a new swimsuit 🙄🤣 nice problem to have mind!

Been out christmas shopping today and bought myself some mac makeup, never had decent stuff before so I'm feeling good for vuing myself more now.

That's the plan (which my phone corrected to llama?!) Bigchoc - I'm not disheartened at all really which is weird but good!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/11/2019 16:39

New swimsuit is another motivating reward, MrD for what you have achieved already

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 01/12/2019 16:50

I’ve had a week off-whoops... we had guests last weekend and then I ran out of FD soup so have avoided the thread the scales and MFP all week... going to cook up a soup batch tonight and then get back on it! Hope everyone else is staying motivated.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/12/2019 18:23

Good luck on your FD tomorrow, what

OP posts:
emcla · 01/12/2019 19:42

I’m joining you tomorrow what. Waves to everyone Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 01/12/2019 23:13

Good luck to you as well, emcla Smile

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/12/2019 08:40

morning everyone, just logging on quickly to say today is FD but it is so freezing here I hope I don't give in (I will be strong!) not helped by the fact that the heating isn't working in my office block Sad

good fellow fasters.....

EssentialHummus · 02/12/2019 08:49

I'm with you what em and 43. It's bloody cold to be without heating today 43 - lots of warm water, tea, coffee, maybe a hot water bottle or few extra layers on you?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 09:25

That's terrible on such a cold day, 43
and you probably wouldn't have known in advance to bring extra layers etc

As Hummus says, lots of hot drinks (preferably no sugar)
Take walks around the office and up the stairs, when you can

Good luck with your FD, 43, hummus, emcla, what and any other Monday fasters

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 02/12/2019 10:44

Monday FD after a weekend away at a friend's house - my first night away from the baby in months, and I still kept waking up every couple of hours Angry. The days of seven straight hours seem so far away.... I didn't count calories or log my food on MFP while I was away, didn't deny myself anything, but didn't stuff myself or overeat either. Most of what we had was nice, homemade food and relatively healthy, so I feel pretty good and enjoyed indulging myself a bit.

Back on it for today - I usually fast Monday and Wednesday as these are my days in the office and it's much easier to stick to herbal tea and water without the temptation of your own biscuit tin! However our Christmas meal is tomorrow, so I'm in Monday and Tuesday this week. The plan is to do a normal FD today and a mini tomorrow - no breakfast, just tea and water until the meal at 3pm. I will be having a few glasses of wine, but I don't think it'll turn too messy as most of us have small children and are still working the next day!

Skinnydreams · 02/12/2019 10:54

Sorry not been around much since my first fast day thursday. This weekend has been awful as my DS is really poorly. No help from 111 as he wasnt deemed urgent enough and there was no available out of hours appointments locally. So had very little sleep and a very chaotic weekend.

DS has now seen a dr and actually has a multitude of lurgies which should all be fine after a week on antibiotics. Hes gonna miss lots of fun stuff at school this week so I am truly gutted for him.

Attempting a fast day today but already struggling with lack of sleep. On way to work now so will check in later!

EssentialHummus · 02/12/2019 11:19

Good luck sydney and skinny!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 13:25

I hope miniSydney is fighting fit again v soon 💐

Good luck on your FDs, Sydney, Skinny

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 13:27

Oops sorry, that's good wishes to miniSkinny 💐

Apologies if I've jinxed any miniSydney ! Blush

OP posts:
emcla · 02/12/2019 15:54

How are all my fasting friends getting on ? I made soup for lunch. V low fat. Omelette and salad for dinner. Hopefully 500 c. I find it hard to estimate

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 18:47

Sounds good, emcla
Not long to go
Are you somewhere nice & warm, or shivering like 43 ?

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 02/12/2019 19:38

Weirdest eating day ever with one impromptu visit after another, but I am now off to eat some Persian chickpea stew that I am testing out for festival catering. Hope others are all done and that 43 can still feel her extremities!

TheFabulousThermos · 02/12/2019 21:07

Hi - please can I join in? I am so annoyed with myself! I was effortlessly slim until my second child but went downhill from there it has totally gone to pot after number three (who is 3 years old now!) I'm not even THAT big... 5"7 and 10 stone 5 ish currently. But VERY out of shape (wobbly bits and big stomach - a child asked if I was pregnant recently!) and a good stone over where I feel comfortable.

I was almost 12 st at the beginning of this year but got down to 9st 7 fairly easily after a mix of 5:2 and calorie counting. Then I just... stopped. I'm not even sure why! And have gained the best part of a stone back so ridiculously easily. Why?!

I am active - I run, cycle, swim and walk a lot, plus other things too. I am also greedy! I really think I need to get back on 5:2 (tomorrow) and make it a permanent thing. Would be great to have some support... tomorrow will no doubt be a challenge but I'm hoping to get back in the swing of it asap. Fingers crossed for a decent first week drop for motivation purposes.... good luck all!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 21:29

Well done on your FD, Hummus
That Persian stew sounds delicious.
I also love a Moroccan chickpea & apricot tagine, especially with lamb

Welcome, Thermos 🙂

Don't beat yourself up
You still have achieved a good loss from the original 12 stone

Your current BMI is 22.7, which is middle of healthy range
So your wobbly bits sounds like an issue with body composition - % bodyfat: % lean mass - rather than total weight

Intermittent fasting should help this,
but I also recommend

  • improving nutrient content - a least 5 veg daily, good protein, cutting back junk, booze & fizzy crap - and

  • adding HIIT and weight-lifting / resistance training for 20 - 60 minutes on a few days per week
    e,g, pump class, spin class, shred, sprint intervals, rope skipping

  • short but intense sessions are usually more effective in your situation than long cardio sessions
OP posts:
emcla · 02/12/2019 21:43
Wink
emcla · 02/12/2019 21:45

Sorry Messed up a long post. Anyway. Successful fd here. Sitting by the fire in a cold Ireland bigchoc.

Night all.

SydneyCarton · 02/12/2019 21:56

FD finished on 508; chicken breast with cheese and ham, new potatoes, broccoli and cabbage, with enough leftover for a couple of squares of chocolate Smile. Going to see how I go for a semi FD tomorrow before the Christmas meal....

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 22:06

Well done, emcla, Sydney

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2019 22:08

Oh and thermos a very important tip:
No snacking / grazing between meals

eat meals, nothing between
If you want a treat, have it on NFDs as part of a meal, e.g. as pud

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread