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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OohMrDarcy · 30/01/2020 09:07

massive congrats to whatto and sydney on hitting your first goals! Always a massive motivator

My first big goal is to hit 'overweight' rather than obese which I am less than a stone from now. considering I started Jan 2019 as morbidly obese that will be a massive achievement on its own. But then I'd like to hit the top end of healthy BMI - I always sat naturally at that end so not worried about hitting the middle. Even if I don't quite get there I'll be 100% healthier than I was this time last year so its all good

However - in the meantime I celebrate lots of mini goals - its a marathon not a sprint for me, so every half stone / 10 lb / stone bracket - every little thing I spot on the way is celebrated as an achievement... and to anyone with a lot to lose, I recommend you do the same!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2020 09:54

Congratulations on your milestone SV, Sydney
The stretched 9.7 target looks very doable, as you seem to be managing the WOL comfortably
Let us know when you are ready for maintenance and I can post the suggested options

Wow, MrD Only a stone from your next major milestone, the lower BMI class
You have already achieved so much
You've had an excellent slection of non-food rewards for each mini-goal and you've time to think up a good'un for the milestone

Good luck today, harriet, moon
I'm joining you today, as I'm taking out my team tomorrow for a retirement supper
Nice sunny day and I've had my Rhine walk

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 30/01/2020 13:38

Yes @moonlight1705 I definitely find it easier in the summer.

PSA pre sliced cheese slices are EXCELLENT for ensuring you don't over serve yourself on FDs. I just had a sandwich thin, three slices of wafer thin ham and a cheese slice for 223 calories of lunch sandwich. Toasted it for all the melty goodness. Genuinely satistying!

aberjenagain · 30/01/2020 19:29

Congrats on the SVs @SydneyCarton and @Whattodowithaminute - fantastic!

moonlight1705 · 30/01/2020 19:51

Kitchen closed on 601 today. How did you do harriet?

harriethoyle · 30/01/2020 20:00

@moonlight1705 FD fist bump. Day finished on 494. Happy enough with that! Grin

moonlight1705 · 30/01/2020 20:02

Nice one harriet!

It looks like DD has got hand, foot and mouth so off to the doctors tomorrow just to check it isn't chicken pox. Sigh Sad

harriethoyle · 30/01/2020 20:03

Oh no... poor little thing. Is it treatable?

SydneyCarton · 30/01/2020 20:08

Ooh harriet that sounds really good. I love a cheese and ham toastie. We ran out of bread this morning so I improvised a fried egg bagel with brown sauce for breakfast 😋

moonlight1705 · 30/01/2020 20:09

I think it is a wait it out type of thing but will give her a bit of calpol tomorrow after seeing the doctor. It might explain my sore sore throat though Smile kids!!

aberjenagain · 30/01/2020 20:39

Oh no moonlight! Hope she’s not suffering too much with it. Cold soft foods went down well with my two when they had it.

Whattodowithaminute · 30/01/2020 20:52

Well done moonlight and harriet sounds like a great day.
Hand foot and mouth can be nasty moonlight so Flowers for you!

badger82 · 30/01/2020 21:05

Hope your little one gets better soon @moonlight

Well done Thursday fasters. My new strategy of spreading the cals out over the day seems much easier. Really hope I've lost weight tomorrow....I feel better but have only achieved one FD and one mini if I'm completely honest re calories!

Need to cut out refined sugar too. Made some healthy cocoa and nut energy balls from a great recipe and that has been a good replacement for hobnobs. Hopefully gradually my cravings will reduce and I'll eat less crap.

Would be great to see a 67 something tomorrow...bit bored of 68s....

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2020 21:23

Well done, moonlight, harriet, badger

Badger Remember to have any sugary treats only as part of an NFD meal, e.g. as pud, not as a snack between meals

I find that seedless grapes, washed & frozen, are a surprisingly delicious & pud on their own, like a superior ice lolly
And great for those of us who are really lazy in the kitchen Blush

OP posts:
Ohyesiam · 30/01/2020 22:32

Well done everyone all on your SVs and NSVs.
BCF great to hear you enjoying your retirementSmile

I have a question.

I like to do 800 calorie fds ( low carb, stops me getting hungry) as my Job is active.
If I lose the extra 600 calories from my NFDs , will I lose weight?

So my TDEE ( Michael mosely calculator) is 2100, if I reduce to 1900 on 5 days a week , that should cover it. Or am I misunderstanding the science?

I do 16:8 everyday if that makes any difference, and have been doing mainly low carb, but am branching out into a few carbs now.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2020 23:29

oh I suggest you try the 800 FDs but keep to around your TDEE on NFDs
Sustainability is what is important longterm, so you want to avoid hunger on NFDs
Give it 3 weeks and then tweak if you want

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 31/01/2020 08:42

Another 1/2 kg off this morning which makes 4.1kg since I resumed 5:2 after Christmas and holiday hiatus. Only 3.8kg to go to first goal! Grin

(Full disclosure: dinner tonight is pie and wine so might not maintain this weight this weekend! Wine)

80skid · 31/01/2020 10:25

Fabulous effort on both counts @harriethoyle Grin
Anyone fasting today ?

OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2020 10:43

morning all - bit of a late FD checkin but I'm here and supping my peppermint tea. Got a stirfry planned for later which I'm looking forward to.

Harriet great idea re the FD toastie! Congrats on the SV

Moonlight hope your DD is ok and you haven't got it too!

moonlight1705 · 31/01/2020 10:50

mrd thanks, turns out not hand foot and mouth but a bacterial skin infection causing blisters. She is on the antibiotics and back at nursery.

However it has meant I've not had breakfast despite bing a non FD day and I've not really missed it.

Ohyesiam · 31/01/2020 11:56

BCF thanks for your advice. I hear the wisdom in what you say, but I feel a bit anxious about the possibility of not losing .
For My own sanity ( and the patience of those reading my postsWink) I am beginning to see that I have to have more of a view on the longterm.

Since I’ve started to do quite a lot of exercise I can look ok in certain clothes atm, so am not totally desperate to lose. This might be a good pivotal point for me to start looking at a sustainable way forward starting from NOW, not from when I’ve lost another 3 stone.

BCF I an really grateful for your input on starting and maintaining this thread. If you were this dedicated at work , they will be missing you alreadySmile.

It’s an FD for me, I’ve had an egg so far. Good luck to all other fasters. May the force be with you!

Ohyesiam · 31/01/2020 11:58

Just reading back through the posts abs see that I started I needed to heal my relationship with god, not foodBlush.
I don’t bother with god and (s)he doesn’t bother me!

Ohyesiam · 31/01/2020 12:01

Moonlight my dd has something v similar sounding, it cleared up no bother.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:15

Congratulations on your SV, Harriet
Not long until your 1st goal

Oh Since you have a fair bit to lose, you are especially wise to think longterm
That's why sustainability is so important - and being hungry on NFDs makes this WOE more difficult
Don't try to be too strict, or in too much of a hurry:
It's a WOL, not a race"

It is imo better in your case to have 800 FDs and eat up to your full TDEE,
until you are more adapted to fasting,

then you can optionally choose one NFD on which you eat to the TDEE of your goal weight
This trick both speeds up loss and gets you used to how you will have to eat in maintenance
iirc, MrD has done this

However, wait 2-3 more weeks before trying this trick and don't start it for more than one NFD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:30

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We have a new Thread #89 !

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