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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/11/2019 07:37

sorry bcf I had a busy evening and didn't make it back onto MN and had an early night. FD was fine, had an omelette with salad for dinner and just pinched 1 sweet that my DS had but around about 600cals so fine with that.

Wow mrd I can't believe how restrained you are, I wish I could harness some of that, especially where cheese is concerned Grin. well done.

NFD today but aiming to bank some calories as I forgot I have lunch with a friend tomorrow (pub, but should be fine with soup or a salad)

Who's fasting today?? good luck

OohMrDarcy · 27/11/2019 07:52

NFD today here

Did level 2 of evil Jillian this morning and was fine again. Am somewhere between basic and pro on the moves and only had to pause for water once (plus a good few gulps before and after)

Obviously for anyone who is considering it - I have done it before, so I wouldn't expect everyone to be able to jump into 2 (though I'm hideously unfit so it is possible Grin )

I'm quite liking this getting up to a workout thing, obviously wont always be able to do that but it does feel like a fab start to my day!

emcla · 27/11/2019 10:39

Well done aber,mrd, moonlight and 43.

I’m joining you today aber.

Good luck to anyone else who is fasting today.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 11:18

Well done, 43

Good luck, emcla and any other Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 27/11/2019 12:23

Well done for taking on Evil Jillian first thing mrd! And on your FD yesterday 43

Urgh. Littlest has been sent home poorly from school (actually, sent home from breakfast club!!), so Netflix is looking after her while I try to work. (She is fine, just full of cold and very VERY snotty/chesty) I am starving - totm due - and having someone to prepare food for is not helping. Oh well, scrambled egg for us both for lunch, with toast for her, and looking for to a roast squash sort of stew thingy later.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 27/11/2019 17:16

I love Jillian and used to do her loads. Did her all the way through last pregnancy. Couldn’t do her on a FD though!

I’m fasting tomrrow. Doing the Fast 800 version and aiming for 3 smoothies from a recipe book I have got on my kindle. I’m nervous as i felt awful last FD.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 27/11/2019 17:16

There are a tonne of bugs where we are - noro and flu. Hope your little one ok

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 17:27

I hope MiniAber is well again v soon, aber 💐

Glasgow See how you go with shakes tomorrow
Remember to drink lots of water too

Most people find it more filling to eat their calories - protein & masses of veg, optionally a little starchy carb - rather than drink them
Shakes containing some protein are more filling than pure veggie ones. while pure fruit smoothies are likely to make you ravenous later

So after tomorrow's FD you'll have a better idea whether solid or liquid suits you best.

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 27/11/2019 19:14

Thanks bcf and Glasgow - she is absolutely fine, will be packed back off to school tomorrow, unless something changes dramatically overnight (jinxed it now...) Def loads of bugs around right now :-(

FD done on 675, got easier after lunch.

emcla · 27/11/2019 19:14

Hi all
Aber I hope your little one is feeling better soon

Not a great fd for me. Tomato soup followed by a small pasta and veg and bacon dinner. And 2 mandarins and a natural yogurt with oat clusters. I felt hungry and had the yogurt. I feel better now. I will aim for a mini or b2b tomorrow.

inthethickofit19 · 27/11/2019 19:28

Thanks folks.

I attempted a FD today. Didn't eat all day (which resulted in a headache) but have now had a home made chicken fajita panini. It prob came in at around 400 - 500 calls from what I can work out.

Except my headache is still there and I just want to eat a whole load of chocolate 😱😱😱 can't decide whether the headache is hormonal (due on cycle), sleep deprived or because I'm coming down with something.

Just got baby to sleep so need to do the bottles and take clothes out of machine and then hopefully straight to sleep myself.

I can do this.

Fillybuster · 27/11/2019 19:31

Another late check in. Really need to work on this! Horrible day at work and a cracking headache. Completely forgot about marmite, despite the large jar on my desk (!) so had 2 hard boiled eggs for lunch along with a couple of palm hearts. Not feeling at all up to the gym this evening - think I may have overdone it a bit last night Confused after a week away and my knees are killing today...- so need to figure out dinner....plenty of options but not sure what I actually fancy eating!

It doesn’t help that I need to make a massive pavlova and 6 pizzas tonight for a team meeting tomorrow Hmm when all I want to do is collapse into a hot bath!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 27/11/2019 20:46

I think a FD when ill is even harder.

Well done for gritting teeth and getting through it

SydneyCarton · 27/11/2019 20:47

Hope all these poorly little ones are better soon. Two of mine are a bit snotty at the moment and I’m hoping it doesn’t develop into full blown colds, and that no one else gets it.

FD finished here on 659: bit more than I was planning but DP and I did a bit of after work Christmas shopping with a lot of walking around and I was pretty hungry when we got back. Fish finger wrap with posh chunky cod fingers and some tartare sauce, and a piece of garlic bread. Feeling pretty full actually, might have a cup of tea in a bit Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 21:08

Well done aber, emcla, inthethick, Sydney

For those with FD headaches - and a reminder to filly to open her jar Smile

mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon glug a level teasp Marmite from the jar
Even if you hate Marmite, regard it as medicine
It replenishes salt & other minerals that may be low while fasting, especially if you are still a newbie

OP posts:
Skinnydreams · 27/11/2019 21:40

Just jumping in to join you all if that's ok. Getting fatter by the day and struggling with both mental and physical health due to being overweight. Cant stick to diets as such so need a lifestyle change. Have dabbled with 5:2 before and seen fairly good weight loss results, I just never managed to stick with it long enough. Needs must now though so jumping in with my first fast day tomorrow. Will read the full thread with my coffee in the morning (black of course).

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/11/2019 05:53

Marmite?! I had no idea. I shall try....

MazDazzle · 28/11/2019 07:06

Welcome skinny and good luck. I think it’s a fab time of year to join rather than waiting until Jan. I always feel very virtuous fasting over the festives.

Anyone else find their first FD of the week easy, but struggle with the second one?

I always fast on a Monday and usually sail through it, but finding the motivation for FD2 is tougher and I always want to put it off. But today is the day!

Starting your day with Jillian does sound like it gives you a boost Darcy. I’m not sure I could muster than motivation though!

Your fish finger wrap sounds delicious Sydney.

Skinnydreams · 28/11/2019 07:44

So here I am coffee in hand, couldn't face it black so measured out a little milk. Joint pain is really bad today so a total reminder of WHY I need to do this.

I cant wait til January maz as the fatigue and pain will totally ruin Christmas. I'm not willing to let it, so here I go......

Skinnydreams · 28/11/2019 07:45

Total bold fail, thanks phone & app!

Skinnydreams · 28/11/2019 07:53

Please can I ask those doing this for weight loss - how often and when do you get weighed? I weigh every morning first thing but know this isnt healthy. I have 4 stone to lose and realise this is no quick fix so want to get into a better weighing habit.

EssentialHummus · 28/11/2019 08:26

Welcome skinny! I weigh weekly after fd2 and write it down - that way you see trends over time, fluctuations for totm etc.

OohMrDarcy · 28/11/2019 09:09

Morning all

NFD here and chilli in the slow cooker for tonight.

Managed Jillian level 2 again this morning - was fun with already tired muscles! Got through it though and can feel strength increasing. The hardest bit is the stupid one legged weight lifting bit - completely shows my lack of balance!

Welcome skinny - I weigh first thing after second fast day of the week as my official weigh in. I also often weigh on a Monday morning - just for information to understand what has happened over the weekend and help me change habits. Good luck, you'll nail it I'm sure.

moonlight1705 · 28/11/2019 09:28

Morning all, I was going to do a FD today but had a terrible night sleep with MiniMoonlight and have now got menstrual cramps galore so I'm having a sensible NFD.

Working from home today so I can look after MiniMoonlight but she is on day 5 of not eating any solids....you may imagine what those nappies are like!

Glad your DD is better aber and thanks for the tip about marmite for future BigChoc

Skinnydreams · 28/11/2019 11:05

I should do ok today, we have the dreaded sick bug going round our school at the moment (where I work). Tummy is not happy at all this morning and the thought of food is actually making me feel worse. 3 coffees so far with semi skimmed milk. Dont fancy anything else right now ....... would be nice if it stays that way!