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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
noseovertail · 29/01/2020 06:41

Ha ha not guilty harriet it definitely wasn't me exercising on a fd Grin

I think I'm just going to stick to fd, dont think I could manage a b2b!!!

Good luck weds fasters

Whattodowithaminute · 29/01/2020 08:06

Well done all Tuesday fasters. Checking in for Wednesday FD

OohMrDarcy · 29/01/2020 09:22

Morning all

I'm here and checking in for a Wednesday FD. I'll be honest - I don't want to do it today! I'm tired and cold and just cba, but I will. The baked potato I'm craving I can have for lunch tomorrow and I can feel very virtuous having it then!

As its so cold and I'm a little run down I'll allow myself up to 600 cals without any stress if needed to help me through today. Sorry I've not been around much - work is insane and I'm just getting through at the moment!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2020 09:28

Well done on your FD, Moon
I hope your throat is better today

Good luck, What, MrD and any other Wednesday fasters

600 sounds a good plan for a tough day, MrD
You know you can nail this and "have it tomorrow"

OP posts:
BookSkark · 29/01/2020 09:34

Morning all, just sidling in to join you if I may? I've been trying to cut down a bit since the start of the year, and have lost about 3lbs, but this feels like a more sustainable way to do it.

Starting with a FD day today - chicken cacciatore with some courgetti for tea, which will be about 350 calories, so then just need to decide on what to do with the remaining calories for lunch - probably some chicken satay and a hard-boiled egg - slightly random combination but should be enough to keep me going.

I think the important thing is going to be to track my NFD as well - I was surprised that my TDEE was about 1,600 calories as that felt like a lot - but I suspect I've been eating and drinking over that amount on a regular basis without realising.

And the other challenge will be doing it without people realising - sounds daft, but I work in a small office and really don't need all the comments. On the plus side, I can work from home on a regular basis, so might try and make those my FD. Planning required!

EssentialHummus · 29/01/2020 10:11

Welcome book, sounds like a good menu today!

Ohyesiam · 29/01/2020 10:22

You are a lovely lot! You’ve supported me to lose 8lb over about my first 10 days( can’t remember exactly, but 3 fds). Smile
But what feels even better in some ways is my NSV.
I am usually very on or off with food, I can binge/ emotionally over eat, or I can diet and lose it. All our nothing.

A more neutral relationship with food just doesn’t really happen with me.
But reading through this thread and the guidelines from Choc Frenzy , I decided to incorporate 3 sweet treats into my evening meals, AND NOTHING BAD HAPPENED!
It didn’t becomes a cue to switch into overeating. I stayed within calories, I lost weightGrin.

So I’m tentatively beginning to think that I can have the holy grail of a
little flexibility and lose weight.

I’m aware that my weight is a symptom and I need to look at what underlies it. I’m
Going to see a therapist on Friday with a view to looking at my dodgy relationship to food, because I’m very aware that restricting my food and feeling out of control with food are just two sides of the same coin and both feed into each other. Which is why I’m so pleased about being able to have a couple of puddings a week, because then I won’t just be fed up (!) of denying myself and fall off the wagon into over eating.
That’s the tentative theory anyway.

This is a mega post. I realise I have a lot to say on the subject! Maybe if I finally manage to heal my relationship with god I’ll write a self help book about itGrin.

moonlight1705 · 29/01/2020 11:22

Ohyesiam - I hear you and am exactly the same as you. I've either been good and denied myself then binged or just binged full stop. Well done also on the amazing 8lb loss Smile

I am beginning to feel 5:2 is a lifestyle now rather than a diet and I can have a nice bit of cake after dinner for example but then stop eating. But I agree that therapy is a good idea - I've got some free sessions through work so may take the plunge myself.

OohMrDarcy · 29/01/2020 16:28

Kitchen closed on 612 which I'm happy with this week!

Welcome book

congrats on the SV ohyesiam

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2020 16:29

Congratulations on your SV, Ohyes
Excellent start

That's good that you and moon are finding this WOl helps retrain to healthier habits
If you can make 5:2 your WOL for lifelong weight management, then you would need to lose the weight only once

Welcome, book 🙂
and good luck on your 1st FD

My advice is always not to share too much about your life, including this WOL, with colleagus and potential frenemies
They have no need - and certainly no right - to know

If you need to FD at work, can you go out somewhere alone, to have say a coffee ?
Of course, easier if you can have some non-consecutive WFH days

Also, a Saturday or Sunday FD is really useful, as it reduces WE indulgence

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2020 16:30

Well done on your FD, MrD

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 29/01/2020 17:11

Well done @OohMrDarcy and welcome @BookSkark - I hear you on the booze calories! Yesterday's desire to spend today, or this evening at least(!), face down in red wine has been thwarted by a committee meeting at 7pm that I'll have to drive to and no red wine in the house. I'm having a stubby of lager with my tea and feeling virtuous Grin

Am going to fast tomorrow to really maximise this streak and because I've got a lovely friend staying this weekend who's had a really tough time recently and I foresee lots of sorrow drowning and tears, bless her, and I want to spoil her rather than calorie count. Although already subconsciously working in little hacks ie brunch on sat so no need for lunch if we have an early tea etc. And will get lots of gin and slim in rather than wine!

BookSkark · 29/01/2020 17:35

Aaah, thanks for all the welcomes - I really like how busy and supportive this thread is. And thanks for the advice BigChoc although I'm not sure I could hack a weekend fast day - somehow it's easier on a work day as I can keep myself busy. I'll see how it goes though.

And congratulations to all those completing fast days, or with SVs or NSVs. It's all really inspiring, so please keep them coming!

Whattodowithaminute · 29/01/2020 18:31

Welcome book it’s a lovely thread here with lots of support and knowledge! I’ve been here since September and think I’m finally getting into it as a WOL rather than a quick tool to lose weight (although it has been very successful in that respect!) I’m starting to make different choices like you harriet brunch before an evening out.

Well done on a good FD MrD early finish for you today! Kitchen closed here on 600ish-was set for a 500 day then ate some of the children’s (not touched-pop crumbs-yuk) chicken to go with my (pretty unsatisfying) itsu noodle pot. I’ve found if I make an effort for a really tasty 450 meal I’much more successful than I was today-in actual and satisfaction terms...
Has the pea supper cleared yet bigchoc? We’ve had a couple of crystal clear (cold!!) days here.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2020 21:10

Well done on your FD, what

For book and any other newbies,
try to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals - eat meals, nothing between
  • AIm for a daily eating window of no more than 12 hours, called 12:12 e.g. first meal at 8am and finish last meal by 8pm
  • On NFDs, you can have sensible amount of treats (e.g. alcohol, lattes, crisps, sugary treats) BUT only as part of a meal, not on their own
  • Lots of water & veg each day
  • Cut down on fizzy drinks, even diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2020 21:14

Yep, what peasouper and then galeforce winds are gone, cold but bracing atm

So I was able to enjoy a couple of Rhine walks today
I also did evening spin and advanced lifting class
I'm already LOVING retirement 😁 - so much more time (& energy) now for what I want to do

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 29/01/2020 21:57

Kitchen closed on 558, cheese and ham omelette and salad. Did a lot of walking today, over 17,000 steps/8 miles and feeling pretty tired. Think it’s off to bed before I start staring longingly at the biscuit tin.....

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2020 23:57

Well done on your FD and walking, sydney

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 30/01/2020 06:43

Weigh in this morning gives me my initial goal weight at 11st 7. Still overweight though so next goal is 11st-ultimately I think 10st 7 could be achievable. Good luck for Thursday fasters.
I’m so pleased retirement is suiting you so well bigchoc so well deserved

SydneyCarton · 30/01/2020 07:16

Well done on getting to your first goal what! I’ve just weighed in at 10 st and 2 ounces, which is my first goal too. Next is 9:10 and possibly 9:7 as a final goal weight. Need to start thinking about maintenance.... Good luck to anyone fasting today Smile

Whattodowithaminute · 30/01/2020 07:18

Amazing well done sydney!!!

harriethoyle · 30/01/2020 08:13

Excellent SV @what and @SydneyCarton! Well done!!

@BigChocFrenzy I would like to retire but I fear I'm a little young at 40 -although sometimes I feel 70-

Anyone fasting with me today?

harriethoyle · 30/01/2020 08:13

Strike through fail Grin

moonlight1705 · 30/01/2020 08:52

I'm fasting today harriet so will keep you company. I'm stocking up on tea - is this easier in the summer as it is not so cold?

moonlight1705 · 30/01/2020 08:53

Meant to say excellent getting to mini goal what - fab achievement!