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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 23:40

MiniFD has same rules as an FD - no alcohol, no junk - but allows 800-1000 cals

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 23:42

Zazu If you're BFing, then an FD allowance is higher:
1000 cals for EBF
700 cals other BF, or stick to 1000 cals if that makes it more doable

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2020 08:58

FD today, anyone else ?

Off to the gym now, for spin class and to lift some heavy weights
Another very foggy day, but I'll have a walk this afternoon

OP posts:
ZazuMoon · 26/01/2020 10:03

Thanks BigChocFrenzy and good luck with your fast day. Hoping my appetite on non FD will regulate itself with time. I seem to be losing a couple of pounds, then putting a pound back on, then losing a couple again.

Whattodowithaminute · 26/01/2020 14:32

Welcome zazu what are you eating so far on FD? I’ve noticed a considerable change in hunger and overall tolerance of FD since I changed from soup and salad to omelette.
I’ve also observed through a week 3lb variation very easily. I always record my post 2nd FD as my weight (but realistically this is my best weight for the week!) this week I weighed 11 st 7.8 on Friday morning, I was out Friday and Saturday nights and up to 11st 10 this morning. I still anticipate being at 11st 7 or 6 by Thursday this week as will have done 2 FD and no alcohol (as DH his away!!)
I’m Monday/Wednesday FD this week. Hope everyone having good weekends and all well.
Good luck for FD today bigchoc and enjoy retirement tomorrow-I hope the sun shines for a crisp clean Rhine walk!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2020 16:21

No Rhine walk as the freezing fog just didn't clear up
So I extended my lifting session after spin to 90 mins

FD finished:
Coffee before fasted training
Later, veg curry (paneer cheese, spinach, cauli, broccoli, carrots) with kidney beans, grilled mixed peppers & cherry toms
Twas a yum and v filling tea

Zazu As what says, boost protein to stay fuller for longer
Eggs or fish are especially good quality protein
have lots of veg too
If you want vegetarian meals, then have plenty of lentils, beans, peas to boost protein

OP posts:
ZazuMoon · 26/01/2020 19:32

Thankyou Whattodowithaminute And BigChocFrenzy. A FD would be 7pm until 12 noon fast, then a small baked potato with tuna and salad or omelette or soup for lunch, then something calorie controlled from the pinch of nom books for dinner such as stir fry. Having fruit or jelly after dinner. I do find I’m needing carbs with breastfeeding but I will try increasing my protein intake too.

badger82 · 27/01/2020 10:51

Morning Monday fasters! Started the day strong with black coffee and loads of errands!
Good luck to all on the wagon today Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2020 12:33

Good luck badger and to all the Monday fasting gang

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 27/01/2020 14:54

I’m with you badger coffee and water so far here with a beef stir fry planned for dinner at 5 ish. Have spent the last 3 hours at the allotment digging and pruning and have a PT session tonight. A good FD so far. Hope all other Monday fasters are having a good one?

SydneyCarton · 27/01/2020 15:07

Wow what, that sounds like a mega workout! Tea and water so far here, and then fishcakes and salad for dinner. Cold and rainy here, ugh. I really should walk to the station after work to make the most of an exercise opportunity, but my raincoat is not warm and I'm increasingly tempted by the tube, but it's only one stop which is a bit pathetic (and expensive!). I suppose the quicker I walk the warmer I'll be.....

aberjenagain · 27/01/2020 16:17

Good luck Monday fasters! Nearly there now Smile

bcf that curry sound delicious.

Not sure when/if I will fast this week - have succumbed to the cold doing the rounds with the girls and DH, and just want all the food. Went off the rails a little yesterday evening, so this week will be about focusing on healthy choices I think.

badger82 · 27/01/2020 16:38

Hope you persuaded yourself to walk @sydney

Monday going well have tried a diff strategy, had a brunch at 11.30 for 250 cals and just had post school run soup for another 200 and saving 350 cals for dinner as have a late meeting....rather that starving myself all day....will see, I definitely feel much less hangry!

harriethoyle · 27/01/2020 17:29

Hi @badger82 and @Whattodowithaminute and any other fellow tasters... I'm signing in!

Slight disaster at lunch... misremembered the calorie count of my wrap and had 420 cal lunch not planned 320! But have made leek and potato soup for tea and am going to do a b2b so that I have 650 to play with rather than 500. Will also get mandatory 2 FDs out the way early doors and leave space for a Thursday fast if I feel inspired!

Whattodowithaminute · 27/01/2020 18:31

That’s annoying for you harriet but sounds like you have a good recovery plan in place!
Kitchen closed here on 450. Exercise class, shower and an early night. Think I’ll probably do a low cal day tomorrow and fast on Wednesday (to recover from my weekend-ooops!!)

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2020 20:41

Well done on your FD, what

How did you get on with your new FD system today, badger ?

A b2b is a good plan, harriet but don't worry tomorrow if you don't fancy FD2
An occasional FD like today when you have an extra 100 cals really doesn't matter over the longterm

Rain is always discouraging when you want a walk, Sydney it's no fun
It's been raining hard or peasouper here since Saturday and cold, so I haven't had any Rhine walks for several days now
Istead, I added an evening spin class today - I already did a morning Bodystyling class

I hope your cold gets better soon, aber
If you feel too miserable to fast, then a few days of healthy habits is a good plan, to support your immune system:

  • Reasonably nutrious meals with protein, lots of veg, beans, lentils
  • No booze, no junk, no snacks between meals
  • Keep drinking water
  • Plan your day so you get plenty of sleep
OP posts:
noseovertail · 28/01/2020 07:05

Morning everyone, well done to all the Monday fasters Smile

Fd here after a bit of a funny Monday, period is on it's way so I just want to eat the world!
Got a super busy week, not aiming to lose anything this week as it's my last week in work so out with my old team for food and drinks Friday, then it's my ds birthday and grandad is visiting, so more meals out plus cake Shock then start my new job Monday and I already have an away day and beige conference foodto contend with. The weekend after is dh birthday and we have another meal out (tapas) and more cake! Argh..... how will I cope?

Anyway, good luck to my fellow tues fasters

SydneyCarton · 28/01/2020 07:20

I did manage the walk in the end as the rain had eased off, although I was glad to have a lift at the other end which saved me walking up a very unfriendly hill. FD finished on 523. Rough night with the restless baby so am craving sugar and carbs to stay awake, but hopefully cups of tea will give me a boost instead. Good luck to anyone fasting today Smile

aberjenagain · 28/01/2020 07:57

Thanks bcf. Am feeling much much better today, so as long as that continues I think I’ll aim for a fd tomorrow.

Well done on all the successful Monday fasts, and good luck Tuesday fasters Smile

EssentialHummus · 28/01/2020 08:01

I'm with you today nose. Anyone else?

moonlight1705 · 28/01/2020 08:29

I'm doing it today Hummus and nose although got a horrible sore throat so also popping the paracetamol and drinking water by the ton.

noseovertail · 28/01/2020 10:11

moon I woke with a sore throat yesterday and it got progressively worse as day went on, then I gargled with salt water (my mum's advice) and today, poof, gone :) :) give it a try!!!

moonlight1705 · 28/01/2020 10:43

Might have to do that later nose as it is miserable. Off to get a nice cup of tea now to warm up a little. How are you doing today?

noseovertail · 28/01/2020 11:28

so far so good.... helped by trying to clear my office for my new post next week, so super busy. Got a turkey salad and sugar free jelly for lunch, been mainlining tea since 6am :)

hummus how are you doing? You are at maintenance aren't you? So do you give yourself more calories or stick to around 500?

EssentialHummus · 28/01/2020 11:41

I improvise a bit nose - sometimes 5;2 with a higher calorie allowance, sometimes 6:1 with 500. But if my weight goes above target (67kg / 10st 5) I immediately treat that as a FD and get it back under. Seems to be working well so far.